A comparison of PS3 and 360 as media players

[Arwin]

Is your pc very old? This shouldn't be the case anymore. Back in 2007 perhaps, but not now.

Bought it in 2009, but it was pretty much a 399 euro HTPC. I bought it for regular use because I liked it as a silent desktop pc, and it was still a quad-core with 4GB RAM. I recently upgraded the 4350 ATI it came with to a 5570, to see if it could run games better than consoles with that (not really, but at least now it has DirectX11 and some programmable cores that can help with encoding DVD to PSP format for my kid ).

No disagreement about the C-200 and its family of devices by the way. These are becoming pretty cool things. They're particularly popular among those among my colleagues who are into downloading 'stuff' ...

@mrcorbo: I just mean I agree with you in general. I just don't see the value of your discussion with tuna that much, but maybe I should just ignore it. You may be right about the BluRay stuff in that the quality of the picture does not matter as much as I suggested - this comment was colored too much by the DVD upscaling difference I experienced last time. The visual difference between the different BluRay players isn't that noticeable in general. But the way the PS3 has kept itself up-to-date alone gives it a big edge over the average BluRay player out there. Remember that we went from Profile 1.0 to 2.0, Live was added, and even 3D was added. Only with 3D is the PS3 starting to show some limitations in terms of only being able to show the menus in 2D due to lack of memory in combination with Java stuff.

 

[-tkf-]

That particular statement actually makes it very hard for me to take the other "subjective" quality assessments you made seriously.

When it comes to Blu-Ray playback the PS3 is still among the kings if not the king. Try and find a review where there is a player that really puts the PS3 in a clear second place. I would be HAPPY if you could find something equally priced and as fast and with the PS3 quality.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/blu-...43fd-blu-ray-player-for-the-home-theater.html

How is it possible to release a blu-ray player today at that price that still isn´t a clear winner?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I read a BRD player comparison in an AV mag a couple of years back, and it rated PS3 as only mediocre, saying it lacked 'three dimensionality' in its output. This was before the days of 3DTV, so they were just talking about video being flat looking, or something. Okay, given the criticism I dare say the mag was talking a load of baloney, but it was an official review that placed PS3 in a second place (more like fourth).

 

[Npl]

I read a BRD player comparison in an AV mag a couple of years back, and it rated PS3 as only mediocre, saying it lacked 'three dimensionality' in its output. This was before the days of 3DTV, so they were just talking about video being flat looking, or something. Okay, given the criticism I dare say the mag was talking a load of baloney, but it was an official review that placed PS3 in a second place (more like fourth).

AV mags are often full of shit. I know a quite popular one that advertises for "tuning" - basically replacing a few capacitors on the PSU and adding a few felt-pads on others - which suddenly boasts "deeper blacks" and other shenanigans over a digital connection.
Its such a dramatic difference that otherwise outclassed players turn into high-end, all for a meager 1000€ tuning costs (probably 10€ worth of capacitors and 4€ felt-pads).

It actually sounds quite a bit like what you are saying, any chance that this was the article you red?

Anyway, should a Bluray really be heavily post-processed by the player? can some automatic algorithms do a better job than the specialists responsible for the transfer, which also have all the processing time in the world (at least alot more time than ~90minutes realtime)?
To me these tests (on 1080p material via HDMI) sound entirely like bullshit anyway, maybe except discussing the quality of downscaling/converting video/audio the TV doesnt accepts.

 

[-tkf-]

I read a BRD player comparison in an AV mag a couple of years back, and it rated PS3 as only mediocre, saying it lacked 'three dimensionality' in its output. This was before the days of 3DTV, so they were just talking about video being flat looking, or something. Okay, given the criticism I dare say the mag was talking a load of baloney, but it was an official review that placed PS3 in a second place (more like fourth).

I was exaggerating

My point is that the PS3 is from 2006 and 5 years later it´s still being used as a benchmark against players and it still beats them, maybe not in all disciplines but at least in some. And a brand new player can be released at $200 dollars more and have serious image issues.

Even without the added extra valued of a complete console with support for a lot of stuff outside games the PS3 is still a very capable Blu-Ray player.

 

[Arwin]

I found this:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub...0PdFo0djN4YzlHZlJZM01pRmpCSTFPbWc&output=html

They're still using the PS3 as their second reference player, but not primary. Also of note is that they haven't completed all HQV tests on PS3, but no explanation of why, other than that they didn't have the information available.

The results show that the PS3 is starting to get surpassed in terms of speed and some other features, but still hangs on pretty well, 4/5 years after release (depending on where you live). They also point out that 1080p/24 output is nearly identical for all players, and that they therefore do their tests at 1080p/60.

Here's more information on the testing methods:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6603_7-5125996-1.html

 

[mrcorbo]

@mrcorbo: I just mean I agree with you in general. I just don't see the value of your discussion with tuna that much, but maybe I should just ignore it. You may be right about the BluRay stuff in that the quality of the picture does not matter as much as I suggested - this comment was colored too much by the DVD upscaling difference I experienced last time. The visual difference between the different BluRay players isn't that noticeable in general. But the way the PS3 has kept itself up-to-date alone gives it a big edge over the average BluRay player out there. Remember that we went from Profile 1.0 to 2.0, Live was added, and even 3D was added. Only with 3D is the PS3 starting to show some limitations in terms of only being able to show the menus in 2D due to lack of memory in combination with Java stuff.

That's a large part of why I bought one. That, the great exclusives and the $200 effective price I paid.

When it comes to Blu-Ray playback the PS3 is still among the kings if not the king. Try and find a review where there is a player that really puts the PS3 in a clear second place. I would be HAPPY if you could find something equally priced and as fast and with the PS3 quality.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/blu-...43fd-blu-ray-player-for-the-home-theater.html

How is it possible to release a blu-ray player today at that price that still isn´t a clear winner?

I was taking issue with the image quality not being "anywhere near". If the IQ is that different between two players when playing a Blu-Ray than one of them isn't just lower quality, it's broken (or set up wrong).

Anyway, should a Bluray really be heavily post-processed by the player? can some automatic algorithms do a better job than the specialists responsible for the transfer, which also have all the processing time in the world (at least alot more time than ~90minutes realtime)?
To me these tests (on 1080p material via HDMI) sound entirely like bullshit anyway, maybe except discussing the quality of downscaling/converting video/audio the TV doesnt accepts.

I don't like unnecessary processing myself. There is still de-interlacing and motion processing (24fps->60fps) that can be done by the player if the display can't handle them or handles them poorly, but a lot of the image processing is just implemented by the manufacturer to make the player's image stand out. Edge enhancement adds artifacts and noise reduction reduces detail. How un-sharp and noisy are most Blu-Rays that they would benefit more than they would be hurt by excessive processing?

 

[patsu]

Because PS3 is the most popular BR player by far, all BR movies will be tested on it. The studios will also release fixes asap if their movies fail to work for whatever reason.

Quality should be great but speed of loading is slower than the latest players. The thing is they have not released Manage Copy yet. pS3 is said to be the only BR player that can be upgraded to support it. But we have heard no news so far.

Now that Qriocity/UltraViolet is launched, perhaps Sony should go back and tie them together. The UltraViolet system is compatible with Managed Copy ( it was used as an example for UV).

On paper, this means copying BR movies and music videos to Android and Playstation portable consoles for free, or at an addtional cost.

 

[mrcorbo]

Because PS3 is the most popular BR player by far, all BR movies will be tested on it. The studios will also release fixes asap if their movies fail to work for whatever reason.

I don't believe it works that way. At least I *hope* it doesn't or there is something very wrong with the Blu-Ray specifications or the enforcement of compliance with them in Blu-Ray media and playback systems.

 

[manux]

I don't believe it works that way. At least I *hope* it doesn't or there is something very wrong with the Blu-Ray specifications or the enforcement of compliance with them in Blu-Ray media and playback systems.

So you expect studios to blindly master movies, press some millions of copies and hope the movies work on all the players without testing? I bet they do testing on lot of players and ps3 being part of the test devices is a no brainer. This testing will also catch the inevitable human factor where somebody does something against standard(i.e. wrong setting in some applications UI).

I bet also all the java stuff needs to be performance and functionality tested on multiple devices.

 

[-tkf-]

I don't believe it works that way. At least I *hope* it doesn't or there is something very wrong with the Blu-Ray specifications or the enforcement of compliance with them in Blu-Ray media and playback systems.

Back when we were doing DVD´s we tested them all on a PS2, a super cheap noname player and a semi old 1st or 2nd generation DVD player. All dvd´s were made to standard but we still had this test.

The PS2 had surprisingly many users (old argument rerun) and any fault would result in a heavy load of complaints.

Of the Blu-Ray players out there i do not think there isn´t any other that has been sold in the same numbers like the PS3. Get that wrong and your in a world of "shit".

 

[tuna]

Regarding picture quality on the PS3, according to DF there is a bug in the HDMI chip on the slim version that gives some display errors that the eye (usually) can not see, but can be seen with their software. I can not find the link now however.....

 

[mrcorbo]

Back when we were doing DVD´s we tested them all on a PS2, a super cheap noname player and a semi old 1st or 2nd generation DVD player. All dvd´s were made to standard but we still had this test.

The PS2 had surprisingly many users (old argument rerun) and any fault would result in a heavy load of complaints.

Of the Blu-Ray players out there i do not think there isn´t any other that has been sold in the same numbers like the PS3. Get that wrong and your in a world of "shit".

I would have hoped that there was a reference implementation that content creators could test against and that the onus would be on the creators of playback systems to maintain compatibility with this. In other words; anything that passed testing against this reference implementation should be expected to play on any player or it's the player's fault and the manufacturer needs to fix it. This would make it easier for consumers, anyway, since they would know who to blame for issues. I guess it's naive of me to think this would be the case, though.

 

[tuna]

Well, if you consider the recent green tint issue on the FOTR EE Blu-ray, it is not like people never fuck up in the media world. Or the fact that the Dark Knight uses the crappy upscaled and edge-enhanced master for the 'normal' scenes. Makes me sad.....

 

[-tkf-]

I would have hoped that there was a reference implementation that content creators could test against and that the onus would be on the creators of playback systems to maintain compatibility with this. In other words; anything that passed testing against this reference implementation should be expected to play on any player or it's the player's fault and the manufacturer needs to fix it. This would make it easier for consumers, anyway, since they would know who to blame for issues. I guess it's naive of me to think this would be the case, though.

I don´t think it´s naive, i think it should be like that as well. But in the "free world" of capitalism and with cutthroat competition the implementations are widespread and bound to be filled with errors.

Add to that the desire for content providers and production facilities to be able to supply the best and most advanced discs and you have yourself a real headache.

Advanced DVD´s with out of the ordinary functions stretched the limits of what actually should be possible. The number of recalls and errors that some DVD´s gave to the buyers was a great example of this

With Blu-Ray it´s much much easier to catch these flaws and errors, simply by updating the firmware on the players and avoid a recall of discs. Btw, it´s funny that you should mention the color space issues.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/4590/rings_extended.html

The green tint in The Fellowship might come from a ref monitor being calibrated wrong

 

[patsu]

I would have hoped that there was a reference implementation that content creators could test against and that the onus would be on the creators of playback systems to maintain compatibility with this. In other words; anything that passed testing against this reference implementation should be expected to play on any player or it's the player's fault and the manufacturer needs to fix it. This would make it easier for consumers, anyway, since they would know who to blame for issues. I guess it's naive of me to think this would be the case, though.

PS3 is one of the references because of it's sheer install base and implementation quality. I remember the Dragon's Lair was tested specifically for it because the specs may have ambiguity, and PS3 was the only one with a complete BR implementation in the early days.

Even for 3D Blu-ray, they changed the specs to include PS3 compatibility.

 

[patsu]

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/vod/global-vod-revenue-climb-58-24580

Worldwide revenue from video-on-demand movies and TV programs will reach $5.7 billion in 2016, up 58% from revenue of $3.6 billion in 2010, according to a new research report.

The tally does not include pay-per-view sports events, adult entertainment or subscription-based VOD services such as Netflix, Amazon Prime and Google, among others, according to London-based Direct TV Research Ltd.

The United States will more than triple runner-up Italy with more than $1.8 billion compared to $592 million. China, the world’s most-populated country, is ranked third with $509 million in VOD revenue.

By region, North America and Western Europe will continue to supply two-thirds of global VOD revenue by 2016, though this is down from 80% in 2010. That said, VOD TV revenue will triple in the Asia Pacific region over the same period to reach US$1.2 billion. China will provide a lot of this growth.

By platform, digital cable will generate $2.6 billion globally – double what it generated in 2010. Satellite TV will contribute $1.7 billion as digital cable widens its revenue growth and market share, according to the report.

Internet-based TV (IPTV) is projected to overtake digital terrestrial TV (DTT) in revenue next t year to become the third largest platform globally. Indeed, VOD revenue from DTT is expected to be largely confined to Western Europe.

...

EDIT: More on topic...

PS3 Media Server got updated a few days before my trip:
http://code.google.com/p/ps3mediaserver/

2011/07/06

New official 1.30.1 builds available for Windows, Linux, OSX!.

...

Current features
Ready to launch and play. No codec packs to install. No folder configuration and pre-parsing or this kind of annoying thing. All your folders are directly browsed by the PS3, there's an automatic refresh also.
Real-time video transcoding of MKV/FLV/OGM/AVI, etc.
Direct streaming of DTS / DTS-HD core to the receiver
Remux H264/MPEG2 video and all audio tracks to AC3/DTS/LPCM in real time with tsMuxer when H264 is PS3/Level4.1 compliant
Full seeking support when transcoding
DVD ISOs images / VIDEO_TS Folder transcoder
OGG/FLAC/MPC/APE audio transcoding
Thumbnail generation for Videos
You can choose with a virtual folder system your audio/subtitle language on the PS3!
Simple streaming of formats PS3 natively supports: MP3/JPG/PNG/GIF/TIFF, all kind of videos (AVI, MP4, TS, M2TS, MPEG)
Display camera RAWs thumbnails (Canon / Nikon, etc.)
ZIP/RAR files as browsable folders
Support for pictures based feeds, such as Flickr and Picasaweb
Internet TV / Web Radio support with VLC, MEncoder or MPlayer
Podcasts audio/ Video feeds support
Basic Xbox360 support
FLAC 96kHz/24bits/5.1 support
Windows Only: DVR-MS remuxer and AviSynth alternative transcoder support

 

[patsu]

Netflix: 75 Percent Of New Customers Signing Up For Streaming-Only Plan:
http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/25/netflix-75-percent-new-customers-streaming/

In its first quarterly earnings since it announced plans to hike prices for DVD subscribers who also stream videos, Netflix tried to put the best face on its new decision. In a shareholder letter (PDF) accompanying earnings, CEO Reed Hastings and CFO David Wells report that during “the quarter, the streaming only plan continued to gain in popularity, with nearly 75% of our new
subscribers signing up for it.”

Another blood bath coming. This time on the digital distribution front.

 

[AzBat]

Here's a video showing off the new ESPN update coming to the Xbox 360 on August 25. Looks slick as hell...

Watch multiple games in HD. Pause one while keeping the other going. Stats! So many stats. And oh lord, the mini-guide with live thumbs and scores.

http://gizmodo.com/5824986/the-new-espn-on-xbox-360-is-the-only-way-i-want-to-watch-sports-now

Tommy McClain

 

[NavNucST3]

Netflix: 75 Percent Of New Customers Signing Up For Streaming-Only Plan:
http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/25/netflix-75-percent-new-customers-streaming/



Another blood bath coming. This time on the digital distribution front.

You are glossing over the massive drop in new subscribers, 2M fewer is not insignificant. I'm actually not sure what we are planning to do we are on the 1+1 plan for $20/month inclusive of taxes I could just buy MS points every month and purchase the shows we watch. One thing is for sure and that is that I bailed on my NFLX stock WAY too early ugh it hit 101 and I walked now look at it...266 on the day made good money but "bad" call on my part, live and learn.