720p w/ 4xAA = 1080p w/o AA?

If you are interested in quality, don't use component inputs, use DVI or HDMI.

 

I'm using VGA out on my x800xt-pe.

 

the lack of those outputs means MS isnt as serious about hd as they say.

 

I'm betting the R500 lacks TDMS support.

 

whats TDMS?

 

...and what are you gioing to do for all the HDTV televisions shipped without DVI up until this point? More HDTV sets up until this point have shipped with "only" component inputs, then those shipped with DVI. Specifically the cheap HDTV's.

Anyway allard and ballmer in an interview stated they could add this later if the need was there. I'm actually glad they didn't make it "only" come with DVI, as I'm using DVI for my DVR and DVI splitters/passthrough cables are extremly expensive.

 

If they support different outputs in x360 the way they did on xbox then they're all right. On xbox the av connector could be replaced to support just regular composite or component/svideo plus toslink through another connector.

 

It is easier to convert DVI to analog than analog to DVI. The question is, does the XBGPU even support DVI output *at all*. That would be *extremely* short sighted given the year the console is coming out and its lifespan. Most HDTVs shipped with only component are not true HDTVs but EDTVs and "HD ready" sets. For example, CRT based Sony 36" "hd ready" WEGAs have component inputs, but realistically, it only supports 480p.

If MS ships some kind of external DVI box that converts analog to digital, it will produce less than stellar quality, and be quite expensive. You want D->A conversion, not A->D. At this point, I hope Dave clears up the TDMS/DVI support issue with the R500, because this is serious enough for me to delay buying an XB360. I don't even have a component cable wired into my walls for this, and I'm not about to tear down my drywall to run a component cable. At best, I've have to run it through a highend $1000 scaler that takes component and outputs HDMI.

Very shortsighted on MS's part. Don't try to claim you support the HD-Era when you clearly, don't.

 

That's incredible that all those cheap HDTVs don't have DVI or HDMI.

People who buy those sets are going to be upset if they find they can't connect future cable/satellite set tops or disc players because they can't access HDCP content.

X360 is suppose to be able to get HDTV streams from a MCE. How would that work, MCE accesses the HDCP content and then streams it? I thought one of the reasons the content companies wanted DVI/HDCP instead of Firewire was that the DVI content was uncompressed so harder to record or distribute to other components?

 

I seem to notice a trend from your posts as of late. When it comes to MS or 360 rather, you look at everything in a negative way, or seem to assume the worst. I mean look, there' no need to chastise them for something you don't know is true! I'd say that was "very shortsighted" on your part.

Then there's comments like the one above that clearly doesn't make any sense. IF MS decided to not support DVI (which they haven't stated and already said they could do if they wanted) this means they are not supporting HD-era? Oh that's right, using component cables that all HDTV's are guarenteed to have, means you're" not" supporting the HD-Era. Whatever...

Well if PS3 comes with "only" DVI cables there's going to be a whole lot of people that won't be capable of using it out of the box. I bet it doesn't, and comes with component cables included with the option to buy DVI cables seperately. infact I bet both xbox 360 and PS3 come with svideo cables included as standard, as there are far more people out there with non HDTV sets then anyone would care to count.

 

First of all, future HD players will be HDMI/DVI only due to DRM mechanisms. If you don't support DVI out, you lose.

Secondly, if they didn't design in support for DVI, it is too late. The GPU framebuffer needs to be able to output more than just analog.

Third, people with component only "HDTVs" will be forced to 480p in the future (if they aren't already due to their really owning an EDTV)

I have always been an X-Box/MS supporter in the past, but I can't help but be wary and disappointed with the seeming lack of HD-support info from MS's flagship "HD era" product.

 

We're not talking about players here in any specific way. besides players have a differen reason for doing this (copy protection). Game consoles don't have to worry about someone recording video footage form a game.

Again you're jumping to a negative conclusion before knowing the facts. You're also ignoring MS reps have stated.

How will anyone with component only TV's be forced to 480p? What brings you to this conclusion. Do you think that you can't support anythign above 480p using component cables? Have you seen how many of the HDTV cheap LCD's aren't coming with DVI input? lot's! ...and they support resoloutions higer then 480p.

Again you're jumping to negative conclusions.

 

"I have always been an X-Box/MS supporter in the past, but I can't help but be wary and disappointed "

Oh give it a rest Democoder, Qroach is bang on line this time imo. You post nothing but negative comments recently as far as X2 is concerned. If its not the constant whining about HDMi/DVI output etc its something else. Christ sake just wait longer and buy something different if you dont like what they have to offer.


Ims

 

Well I find DemoCoder has a lot of good points. Basically it comes down to preference... People who have a preference for one system don't like others questioning their system when their own mind is made up about it. I see it happening a lot on different forums, and it's to be expected. Demo is correct in a lot of his statements, such as the fact that IF Microsoft didn't support the digital output, they wouldn't be truly supporting HD as much as they claim to be (aka pushing the HD era which is their own claim). Microsoft has stated that they are only including the analog output at the moment, and they have the option to add digital if they see the need. There's nothing wrong with trying to find out whether or not they will include it.

 

I have a right to criticize what I want. Don't like it, leave the forum. This forum is not for everyone to post uncritical love.

 

I'm thinking that DVI/HDMI has a lot to do with the BR drive in the PS3. More than it being a full digital interconnect, it is a way to support DRM which is paramount to the interests of moviehouses and if they are to ever release movies on BR discs. Now if the XB2 will forgo having a drive for HD medium, then there is no need for built-in DRM enforcement/implementation via DVI/HDMI (and consequentially, this may be a sticky/pricey add-on situation later on if MS introduces HD-DVD support at a later date). I'm not saying this is good or bad, mind you. I'm just bringing attention to an additional catch with this DVI/HDMI stuff.

I'm not really up on how much HD format can be "gotten" out of component, but it does strike me as likely the most reliable output for this "HD-gaming" age. (...but maybe firewire will find a newfound presence in all of this?) The real need for DVI/HDMI is more to allow support of DRM measures (in addition to the obvious benefits of it being an "all digital" connection, of course), so this could be the source of more sticky issues later on for all concerned (console that have it or don't have it and hdtv's that have it or don't have it, alike). It's pretty much the prerequisite to supporting any future or current HD-disc format, so you cannot really fault someone for putting it in. However, it may piss more than a few customers off later on, when they discover they have a "BR movie player", but their hdtv happens to have no input to utilize it (DVI/HDMI)- I don't think it is all that impossible that Sony (or any console brand) could be legally bound to allow BR movie output only through DVI/HDMI, with component output being "blocked". ...or maybe the component output is arbitrarily fixed to 480p for movie output? (I dunno- just thinking outloud on this) You can see what's at stake here, and "sending the clearest HD program content for the consumer" doesn't exactly end up the priority, if you get my drift.

 

I believe that is precisely what has been proposed. It's not because of DVI or HDMI per se but rather the lack of HDCP (so even older DVI connections that don't support HDCP are going to be ineligible for HD content). This means that if your connection does not have HDCP, then the BR/HD-DVD player will only output 480P.

Component should have enough bandwidth for 720P but the issue is what I mentioned above.

Then they are likely screwed if they don't support HDCP in some form.

Has MS mentioned a digital port of some sort? They must have this I would hope/presume.

 

From the initial rumors (no idea if anything more has surfaced) it was believed that MS does not have any digital output ports. They do have a vga out though, so you can atleast get better output than component.

Nite_Hawk