51gb HD-dvd discs approved for production

[Zaphod]

Zaphod, I agree about the hybrid being the most useful application for triple-layer. It's pretty neat that one can use the same side of the same disc in both a DVD player and HD-DVD player. How much of a quality compromise is there for the DVD part to only be single layer?

Depends. IIRC, the original spec for a DVD-5 is 120 minutes @ 5100Kb/s total. Even though MEPG-2 encoders are probably noticeably better today than 10 years ago, factoring in an AC-3 track and possibly an additional stereo track, they shouldn't try to squeeze in that much more than two hours without any additional extras while keeping an acceptable bitrate (down to an average of roughly 3.5Mb/s for the video seems common for retail DVDs).

So, probably not an option for the epics, but for most theatrical releases it should suffice for the main movie.

 

[Geo]

I dunno, man. Seems to me that 2 hr movies are the minority anymore in the high-profile movies anyway, which would be where the volume is. The latest slasher pic might be less than 2 hrs, but the prestige movies have nearly all had 2 hrs in the rear view mirror for some years.

 

[Capeta]

On a side note, recording of HD material onto regualr DVD-R/RW have been approved by the DVD Forum. Since dual layer DVD-Rs are so cheap now, I could see this being an attractive feature for HD DVD.

 

[Zaphod]

On a side note, recording of HD material onto regualr DVD-R/RW have been approved by the DVD Forum. Since dual layer DVD-Rs are so cheap now, I could see this being an attractive feature for HD DVD.

Nifty. I see DVD+/-R(W)/HD DVD-ROM home recorders in the not so distant future (unless the broadcast industry throws a fit). 720p AVC/VC1 should give quite good quality at MPEG-2 bitrates and be within reach for real time encoding.

 

[Random Digital]

Accoding to Amir, no studio in the HD DVD camp has expressed a need for more capacity and clearly by the quality of transfers we see on HD DVD, the current specs are fine.

I thought some HD-DVD transfers lacked uncompressed audio due to lack of space.

 

[Zaphod]

I thought some HD-DVD transfers lacked uncompressed audio due to lack of space.

Are there any reasons other than marketing and/or 'audiophile' placebo-voodoo mumbo-jumbo you can think of where that would matter?

 

[Random Digital]

Nifty. I see DVD+/-R(W)/HD DVD-ROM home recorders in the not so distant future (unless the broadcast industry throws a fit).

http://www.hdtvuk.tv/2007/09/sony_replace_dv.html

In a clear declaration of intent, Sony has discontinued the release of DVD recorders in Japan – with the company concentrating exclusively on high-definition Blu-ray recorders.

The announcement was made shortly after the introduction of four highly specified Blu-ray recorders, which can burn and record high-definition content using the latest MPEG-4 AVC format, to the Japanese market.

With a wide range of high-definition programming available in Japan via terrestrial and satellite broadcasts, there’s been an explosion in interest for HD time shifting and recording – even more than for play only HD discs.

 

[Carl B]

51GB TL discs haven't actually been approved yet.

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/11138.cfm

 

[Zaphod]

Non-news. Except, perhaps, for 'journalists' that would believe that the approval indicated that TL-51 HD DVD discs would be available for production tomorrow. There's several hoops to jump through from the physical spec, via the first production model, test specifications and more, to the final product.

The newsworthiness of the certification of the physical spec was that Toshiba were obviously moving forward with the format and confident enough to bringing it beyond the prototype stage.

 

[Dave Baumann]

http://www.dvdforum.org/40scmtg-resolution.htm
http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/15/dvd-forum-approves-51gb-triple-layer-hd-dvd-spec/

Seems that its gone through now.

 

[Randell]

Are there any reasons other than marketing and/or 'audiophile' placebo-voodoo mumbo-jumbo you can think of where that would matter?

To audiophiles it does matter, so it hits early sales as they are most likely the early adopters, and then the consumer friendly reasons that HD-DVD is preferable to Blu-Ray mean less.

 

[Zaphod]

To audiophiles it does matter

That's just because they don't know any better. The Fox Mulder slogan applies: "I want to believe".

 

[AlNom]

Is new hardware going to be needed for reading the 51GB discs? I can't recall, but was it the same situation back when dual-layer DVDs were introduced?

 

[Randell]

That's just because they don't know any better. The Fox Mulder slogan applies: "I want to believe".

there's a difrerence between believing gold-plated, oxygen free, triple coated HDMI cables are better than the free ones in your box, and knowing the fact that high bit-rate, non-uncompressed sound is better than compressed sound you know Of course you have to have an amp/speakers that you can hear the difference with, but even budget receivers and speakers should be able to handle that. Not your typical PC/console set-up I grant you.

 

[Zaphod]

and knowing the fact that high bit-rate, non-uncompressed sound is better than compressed sound you know

Knowing?! Seriously?!

Non-'placebophiles' know that: Compressed != Lossy. Quite a novel idea to accept, especially at a tech-forum – I know, but there it is...

 

[Ty]

Is new hardware going to be needed for reading the 51GB discs? I can't recall, but was it the same situation back when dual-layer DVDs were introduced?

So far, rumors are saying no, even older HD-DVD players should be able to read the newer discs.

 

[Dave Baumann]

So far, rumors are saying no, even older HD-DVD players should be able to read the newer discs.

There's some discussion that the 17GB layers have improved readability over the current 15GB layers. I think they really need to demonstrate this point ASAP if they actually can though - I'm not going to believe it until I see it.

 

[Ty]

There's some discussion that the 17GB layers have improved readability over the current 15GB layers. I think they really need to demonstrate this point ASAP if they actually can though - I'm not going to believe it until I see it.

Yea, the claim is that the smaller bits actually aid readability, something that seems counterintuitive to me at least. I would like to see this demonstrated, preferably on the oldest HD-DVD model around.

 

[BRiT]

Is anything changed from the signaling perspective between the 17GB and 15GB discs? Perhaps they're burned with a deeper/stronger signal? I don't know if that's possible, just grabbing at straws. It seems odd that adding 13.3% more storage would improve readability.

 

[AlNom]

Would that just be referring to slightly smaller pits and hence with the same angular velocity, they're reading more data per second