3D Gaming*

[patsu]

I think TheWretched has the right idea: Use the split screen mode. It should be equally or more demanding than stereoscopic 3D in general. Think they may have to remove some effects, improve others (e.g., jaggies). But it should be a good starting position.

EDIT:
Ad is fake by the way.

 

[TheWretched]

Well, in theory, every game that does support splitscreen should support 3D from the get go, without much work. I mean, it essentially already renders two screens, although at half or even less resolution (in MW2, R2 or RE5, the split screen isn't split in half)... upscaling those two framebuffers into a "3D buffer" (on top of each other, at 720P each) shouldn't be too hard.

And, as we can see, this is essentially the way they go. GT5, MS2 and others, all have 2 player splitscreen...

 

[patsu]

GAF has a 3D Gaming impression thread up:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397761

 

[patsu]

Summary of Sony's 3D conference:
http://www.sonyinsider.com/2010/06/10/playstation-ceo-talks-ps3-3d-future/

(includes some photos, slides)

According a survey, PS3 owners are most likely to have their system connected to a high definition television, a surround system, and use their console as their primary dvd player compared to other consoles. He described PS3 owners as “voracious technophiles” who are the early adopters, and who are ready for the next step in home entertainment.

Stating that 3D is critical for the PS3, he had a survey that highlighted just what some PS3 owners are thinking. In that survey, 63% are aware of 3D games, 71% say it’s important, and more than half indicated they would use their PS3 more because of 3D content. For those who aren’t PS3 owners, their purchase intent goes up, when they find out about the PS3’s 3D capabilities.

EDIT: Hmm... they have a YouTube video of the conference:

 

[TheWretched]

Housemarque described in a bit detail, how they achieved 720P@120Hz in this PS3 Blog post

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010/06/10/super-stardust-hd-3d-story/

[...]
We had been working on our next version of our game engine for over a year and replaced the core engine with a newer one. As the engine is highly modular it was mainly a matter of adding stereoscopic cameras and configuring the engine to render everything twice. That was, of course, just the beginning: after that we had to optimize a lot, as we now had 8.3ms instead of 16.7ms to render a frame.
Luckily, we had 50 per cent of the SPU power left, so we tapped into that.
The main challenge of making stereoscopic SSHD was mainly drawcalls and polygons – we have lots of objects with lots of polygons and massive particle effects. We solved the issue by moving vertex processing from GPU to SPU and merging as many objects as possible to one drawcall. Previously, every asteroid chunk and every enemy was in a separate drawcall; in the stereo version they go out in a few fell swoops.
[...]

 

[patsu]

Analyst: 3D Needs 1-2 Years To Become 'Meaningful' To Gaming:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...s_12_Years_To_Become_Meaningful_To_Gaming.php

"Console makers look to emerging 3D technology to reinvigorate the current console cycle. Following the success of 3D movies in theaters, console makers are looking to emulate this success in gamers' living rooms," the analyst summarizes in a note sent to outlets including Gamasutra before next week's E3.

However, he concludes: "While games will likely look great in 3D, there will be many challenges for publishers, first and foremost being the very small initial installed base. We don't expect 3D to be meaningful to the gaming sector over the next 1-2 years."

Then again, console makers may push for split screen and co-op together with stereoscopic 3D in these 1-2 years. Many gamers seem to be looking for a LAN/local MP game experience. Sony should not mind since they don't lose any revenue for online gaming subscription.

 

[patsu]

... and the other 3D gaming wildcard:
http://kotaku.com/5561086/is-this-nintendos-3ds

The Nintendo 3DS will have a 3D camera, two differently-designed screens, a tilt sensor and will be significantly more powerful than current handhelds, according to our reporting.

 

[JB9861]

Hm...I haven't heard that the VT20 wasn't representing the full gamut in 3D??? Are you sure Oninotsume?

 

[Oninotsume]

Hm...I haven't heard that the VT20 wasn't representing the full gamut in 3D??? Are you sure Oninotsume?

Yes. One of our main engineers, who is privy to this information,
explained it to me. He also composed some side-by-side still
images, then combined them into a single image using the
side-by-side setting, so we could view them without glasses.
The degradation in the color space was very obvious. It was like
looking at a 12megapixel digital camera shot, and then switching
over to a 5megapixel shot.

Whether you'll take notice of this in motion is another question.
Which is why I would like to reserve my final impressions until
I have seen a high-color, high-contrast BR, such as a Pixar film.

Thanks,
Oninotsume

 

[Rangers]

Hi,

I tried out Wipeout HD and Super Stardust HD on Panasonic's
new 3D Viera (50+'' not sure of the size) at work today.

Both games looked really fantastic, although Super Stardust was
indeed a much smoother experience. That isn't to say Wipeout HD,
didn't still look amazing, especially the replay mode following the race.

Using 3D was also a snap. The game automatically asks if you want
to play in 3D following the title screen, and the glasses start up
relatively quickly. The glasses, however, didn't sit well on the bridge
of my large nose, and were quite uncomfortable.

Unfortunately the 3D gave me, and just about everyone else who
used it, a slight headache, which is still with me now. Perhaps
it takes some getting used to.
(I did not experience this when viewing Avatar in I-max 3D.)

One other disappointment was that the Viera halves the color spectrum
(number of supported colors) in 3D mode. It wasn't very noticeable on
dark backgrounds, but may prove to have an impact on certain bright
games and Blu-ray. Apparently the Bravia, although not full 1080P
maintains the full color spectrum even when in 3D mode. I will report
on the Bravia once it arrives.

All in all it's neat tech., and really geared towards games, but I'll have
to wait a while before investing in it personally.

Oninotsume

I had the same "bridge of nose" problem with Avatar 3D glasses. Particularly the cheaper ones used the second time I saw it IIRC. It started to really annoy me as I just couldn't find a comfortable fit.

Damn, just put some foam on those nose bridge thingies or something glasses guys

 

[MfA]

It doesn't reduce the colour spectrum, it increases the quantization.

As I said before, plasma is 15 bit in 3D (600 Hz/120 fps = 5 bit per colour component). With good spatio-temporal dithering it shouldn't look too bad in motion.

 

[tabs]

I had the same "bridge of nose" problem with Avatar 3D glasses. Particularly the cheaper ones used the second time I saw it IIRC. It started to really annoy me as I just couldn't find a comfortable fit.

Damn, just put some foam on those nose bridge thingies or something glasses guys

FWIW the 3DVision glasses come with 3 different bridges you can swap out. I guess most manufacturers will include this sort of option. You probably wont get that in a store demo or cinema though.

 

[dragonelite]

Okey just saw this not sure how it works and if you still need a tv to do it.
But the idea they are shooting a lightbeam into my eyes does kinda sound Scifi to me.

My first thought was they just quickly blind(temporarily)one eye so the other gets the frame and vice versa. Something like with a bright flashlight that can blind you but you quickly recover. Instead of using shutter glasses they will blind you.

http://gizmodo.com/5561095/microsoft-creating-3d-effect-by-shooting-images-straight-into-your-eye

 

[MfA]

No, the wedge lens works like a field lens ... it emits light in a tightly bounded volume, for which the direction can be steered, which they then shine through a LCD. So the trick is to put the left eye image on the LCD and steer a volume of light which only overlaps the left eye, and after that the same for the right eye.

 

[Arwin]

Neat. I'm guessing they're using tech much like that's used for laser eye correction today, which follows the eye immediately even if it moves. Certainly will help make TVs smaller.

 

[MfA]

I suspect they haven't got it working with tracking at all and it's just sweet spot based ... that's just how it can work in theory.

 

[Arwin]

I suspect they haven't got it working with tracking at all and it's just sweet spot based ... that's just how it can work in theory.

If you want the whole image to be visible, you have to project it on a smaller area than your eye's lense, right? And to be in 3D, it needs to be able to do that properly and consistently for both eyes at the same time ... If you can actually do this, then there's probably no more need to worry about too little brightness (only too much, as has been jokingly discussed, but is still true, though shouldn't be too hard to provide a safety net for I imagine).

 

[ERP]

http://www.opticsinfobase.org/oe/abstract.cfm?URI=oe-17-22-19714

From this paper, the MS work is somewhat different than the laser displays, it literally acts as a directional back-light to a conventional LCD panel, I assume from the 240Hz -> 2 viewers comment that they time multiplex the back-light and image.
It looks as though it was originally created to reduce the power consumption of LCD panels.

I wonder how far away it is from commercialization, because of the nature of the tech, they probably don't need very accurate eye tracking. I would make for a very cool portable display.

 

[patsu]

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2010-06-14-vidgame14_VA2_N.htm

Other themes at this year's Electronic Entertainment Expo, the video game industry's largest showcase, include 3-D games and increased integration of social networks such as Facebook and Twitter.

•Games with depth.Sony has announced that PS3s received a software update for playing 3-D games, and the company has several downloadable games available on the PlayStation Network. SOCOM 4 is due later this year, and Killzone 3 is expected next year, both being developed with 3-D features.

The futuristic shooter action game Crysis 2 promises to be the first major game available in 3-D on the three major high-def game platforms when it is released later this year for the PS3, Xbox 360 and PCs. "The success of 3-D movies like Avatar and the introduction of 3-D TVs from the hardware manufacturers tells us that this is the next big movement in entertainment, much like HD was years ago," says Cevat Yerli, CEO of Frankfurt-based Crytek.

Both versions of the game (2-D and 3-D) will have the same content.

Even the game's multiplayer mode will be playable in 3-D. "For games especially, 3-D gives gamers an increased level of immersion, which can enhance an intense experience like Crysis 2," Yerli says.

Nintendo is expected to unveil a new handheld 3-D DS system. "That could potentially be the surprise of the show," says Geoff Keighley, host of Spike's GameTrailers. "Motion and 3-D are the trends this year and could be the shot in the arm that the industry needs."

 

[patsu]

Study: Casual Gamers Interested In 3D, Too

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/28951/Study_Casual_Gamers_Interested_In_3D_Too.php

3D's not just for gamers, either, says the CEA. 64 percent of the respondents who expressed interest in 3D are gamers, but over a third -- 35 percent -- identified as casual gaming.

These respondents all expect 3D gaming to be part of an integrated multimedia experience, news that should please Microsoft and Sony. The majority of those polled want to use their devices for 3D movies and internet connectivity, although almost half, at 45 percent, want to download games and content directly to their device. Backward compatibility with 2D content was also a common desire, according to the CEA.

"The introduction of 3D into the gaming arena has the potential to reinvigorate the gaming market by adding greater realism and fostering a more social gaming experience," says senior research analyst Ben Arnold, CEA’s senior research analyst. "As interest grows and consumers become more comfortable with the technology, 3D is poised to become the preferred format for many gamers."