3D Gaming*

[manux]

I thought 240Hz with HDMI 1.4 was going to be the standard for 3D displays?

I think it's going to be 2*1080p24 through hdmi1.4 and the tv will then show those 24 images for right eye and 24 images for left eye at whatever the displays refresh rate is(for movies).

For games I doubt anything highter than 2*1080p60 is used and again tv shows the content at whatever the refresh rate of tv is.

There is no point in sending redundant frames over hdmi.

 

[Sigfried1977]

The Nvidia glasses come with a little IR-emitter box. When you want to use it with your PC you hook the device up with an USB cable, but it also has standard (I'm assuming it's standard at least) Vesa 3d-sync input for 3d ready tvs and projectors.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Tearing and dropped frames would really kill the 3D, I'd think.

Yeah, makes sense. I actually wonder how aliasing would feel like if it's different for the two eyes...

 

[Blazkowicz]

I think it's going to be 2*1080p24 through hdmi1.4 and the tv will then show those 24 images for right eye and 24 images for left eye at whatever the displays refresh rate is(for movies).

For games I doubt anything highter than 2*1080p60 is used and again tv shows the content at whatever the refresh rate of tv is.

There is no point in sending redundant frames over hdmi.

The Nvidia glasses come with a little IR-emitter box. When you want to use it with your PC you hook the device up with an USB cable, but it also has standard (I'm assuming it's standard at least) Vesa 3d-sync input for 3d ready tvs and projectors.

so the TV will buffer both images and is responsible for flashing them. that resolves concern for lag.

the very same input lag should be a problem on a PC gaming monitor. I assume the nvidia driver is lag-aware, knowing what screen it's running one, and sends a delayed signal?

 

[Sigfried1977]

so the TV will buffer both images and is responsible for flashing them. that resolves concern for lag.

the very same input lag should be a problem on a PC gaming monitor. I assume the nvidia driver is lag-aware, knowing what screen it's running one, and sends a delayed signal?

Good question. I assume with 3d ready tvs it's no problem because the tv's 3d sync outlet is obviously built to work in sync with the panel. No idea how it's done with the PC monitor as the ir emitter is not being connected with it directly. I guess there's a manufacturing standard for that and/or you can select your type of 3d ready monitor somewhere in the Nvidia display manager.

 

[patsu]

Mitsubishi to release 3D adapter for legacy 3D-ready TVs:
http://www.twice.com/article/442871..._Blu_ray_Adapter_For_Legacy_3D_Ready_Sets.php

Mitsubishi Digital Electric America is announcing here that it will sell this summer a 3D adapter that will allow all legacy Mitsubishi 3D-ready DLP rear-projection TV owners to connect to forthcoming 3D Blu-ray Disc players, based on the just-approved 3D specifications.

 

[AzBat]

Why are they going shutter when you can go polarized? I liked the polarized way much better.

Tommy McClain

 

[patsu]

The reasons are kinda highlighted here:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/26/ready-or-not-the-latest-3d-technology-is-coming-home/

 

[Rangers]

That is how the majority of 3DReady TVs work i believe. We were discussing NVidia's tech, which works on non 3DReady tv/monitors that wouldnt have the IR sync modules.

If IR sync modules are the difference between 3D ready TV's and not, why not sell a little add on module for all the legacy TV's? Surely there's some technical way to do this? But obviously not, why?

I just bought a HDTV, would like 3D but I think it's going to be a tough, tough sell to get people to upgrade anytime soon, especially as they say, "in this economy".

 

[patsu]

At this moment, I think the minimum requirements for a 3D LCD/LED TV and monitor are high refresh rate (e.g., 240Hz), bright screen (to compensate for some dimming by the glasses), HDMI 1.3 (or above, for the bandwidth to play Blu-ray movies), and IR-emitter (for syncing with active shutter glasses). Am I correct ?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Why are they going shutter when you can go polarized?

It's said to be extremely complicated and thus expensive to pull off.
With the active shutter approach you need a little more electronics, a high refresh rate without ghosting, and cheap glasses. In both cases you're 3D enabled and able to brag about it.

My pal who's at CES wrote that it works well though. I dunno, I'm gonna have to check this 240Hz version as soon as I can...

 

[patsu]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6080XO20100109

Movie buffs and sports fans looking to 3D televisions for the ultimate home theater experience may want to get their eyes checked first -- or risk a 3D headache, U.S. eye experts said on Saturday.

The 3D wave has hit all over the world. I saw similar articles, and other 3D tech news half way across the globe. Laa-Yosh, that Engadget article says the active shutter glasses is more expensive than the cinema ones. What are you comparing it to when you say "cheap glasses" ?


EDIT:
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa175.html#011110d

* Sony 3D firmware coming in June (tentative date given by unknown Sony execs. Take your own salt)
* Flimpsy 3D glasses may be cause for concern.
* Minor mention of other 3D TV tech in CES 2010 (e.g., Front projection TV).

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I'm comparing it to making a plasma panel that's capable of emitting polarized light for the polarized glasses. The glasses themselves are probably not worth more then $25-50 or so.

And I told you all that 3D's gonna be the big thing for 2010 back in the summer or so

 

[ShadowRunner]

If IR sync modules are the difference between 3D ready TV's and not, why not sell a little add on module for all the legacy TV's? Surely there's some technical way to do this? But obviously not, why?

I just bought a HDTV, would like 3D but I think it's going to be a tough, tough sell to get people to upgrade anytime soon, especially as they say, "in this economy".

They probably want to sell new tvs.

There is a lot more to it than just he syncing of the gasses, the tv still has to be able to process the signal format it is recieving and know wht to do with it. While my tv is 120hz i believe it cannot even accept a 120hz signal.

 

[patsu]

And I told you all that 3D's gonna be the big thing for 2010 back in the summer or so

Yeah well, my mom told me a lot of things back then, but I can hardly remember any of her earnest advices now. ^_^ I need prOofs ! What made you think 3D will be big in 2010 ? You saw early footages of Avatar ?

The hype might tank after the Avatar effect wears off you know.

 

[grandmaster]

So are there any outstanding questions any one has about Sony's implementation or any background info you really want to know? I might have the opportunity to find out more soon

 

[Rangers]

Has anybody realized that if you combine 3D TV/gaming and a Natal-type control system, you're kind of close to a holodeck

Except of course, supposed objects in the holodeck were physically there...

 

[Crossbar]

So are there any outstanding questions any one has about Sony's implementation or any background info you really want to know? I might have the opportunity to find out more soon

Sure! :smile:

Some obvious questions about the the shutter glasses like:

• The Shutter frequency
• Battery life
• Weight
• Price
• Sync technology

Something about future development:
As 480 Hz TVs come available will shutter speed increase to 240 Hz? Are there any benefits?
Do they see an opportunity to use shutters with mono-synced lenses to replace split-screen game modes with two virtual full screens?

If your opportunity allows questions about games, ask them about what target resolution and level of AA the initial 3D games will have.

 

[patsu]

So are there any outstanding questions any one has about Sony's implementation or any background info you really want to know? I might have the opportunity to find out more soon

Argh, I am interested in Gem + 3DTV integration, especially 1-1 tracking vs eye-hand coordination for 3D combat, perceived lag, texture/rumble feedback when touching an in-game object. I doubt they can say anything.

Also will I be able to hook up 2 or more PS3 (like GT5) to produce a full res 3D image ? If so, activate that subscription model for games cause I'm signing up. Already have 2 PS3s.

 

[manux]

At this moment, I think the minimum requirements for a 3D LCD/LED TV and monitor are high refresh rate (e.g., 240Hz), bright screen (to compensate for some dimming by the glasses), HDMI 1.3 (or above, for the bandwidth to play Blu-ray movies), and IR-emitter (for syncing with active shutter glasses). Am I correct ?

I think the answer is yes to that. But you should add that tv should be capable of processing the 3d signal(which is not true for current 240Hz televisions as they are hardwired for 2d signals). Some tv's might be firmware upgradeable but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Then there is the open question of movies. In what format is the 2*1080p24 source material sent over hdmi1.3? Is it the feared 3-2 pulldown and 1080p60 which would half the resolution and cause jerky pannings or is there better kludge available that some future tv's can decode from hdmi. Another known hdmi output choice is the 720p 3d outputted similarly to superstardust(again lowering the resolution and making ps3 suboptimal player for 3d blu-ray).