3D Gaming*

[patsu]

Can the glasses work at 240Hz yet?

I don't know. Am monitoring the field closely before making my first 3D purchase.

I found the design language for the 2010 Bravia TVs. They look nice, but I hope Sony hasn't forgotten to tune the XMB and overall UI issues to match the revised Bravia look. It's a pity they don't make 3D monitor.


EDIT:

Maybe I'm just not sensitive to that sort of thing, but it surprises me that a few people think the glasses are bulky and heavy. I find them light and comfortable. Quite often after gaming I've done other stuff on the PC and forgot I've had them on (until the left eye starts flashing on and off to notify me that the glasses are powering down - always surprises the hell out of me).

Which 3D glasses are you using ?

 

[patsu]

www.gamerlive.tv has a broad coverage on the 3D Gaming Summit. They have 10-20 videos and interviews on the conference. I can't link to the videos directly; they are all hidden inside Flash.

Can only list the ones with associated HTML article:

Main Entry Point: http://www.gamerlive.tv/3d-gaming-summit
Most of the embedded videos are listed on this page, but not all. The other videos are in the links below...

Before the conference:
3D Gaming Summit Brings Big Names for Hollywood and Videogames Together
http://www.gamerlive.tv/article/3d-gaming-summit-brings-big-names-hollywood-and-videogames-together

Keynote:
Avatar Producer Jon Landau Sees a 3D Future
http://www.gamerlive.tv/article/avatar-producer-jon-landau-sees-3d-future

Sony announcements (Probably because they sponsored the event):
Sony Offers Free 3D Games and Movies with Bravia 3D TVs June Launch
http://www.gamerlive.tv/article/sony-offers-free-3d-games-and-movies-bravia-3d-tvs-june-launch

EDIT:
[Fixed Jon Landau URL because GamerLive changed the link]

Adding...

Mitsubishi Showcases New 3D TVs at 3D Gaming Summit
http://www.gamerlive.tv/article/mitsubishi-showcases-new-3d-tvs-3d-gaming-summit

 

[tabs]

Which 3D glasses are you using ?

I bought the 3D Vision kit from nVidia (and then a second one for my missus).

I do also have the e-dimensional glasses from way back, but they've not been used since I had a CRT, which was... 2004 or so.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I think the Nvidia glasses are quite comfortable actually. I finished almost the entire Dragon Age game with it. Avatar as well. Never experienced any headaches or eye fatigue.
Still, I'm hoping for displays that make use of polarized glasses instead of shutter tech. They don't darken the image nearly as much, are light weight, don't require any synching with the tv or your computer, don't flicker at all and most importantly: they are cheap and easy to replace.

 

[MfA]

Not all solutions which use polarization are frame parallel, RealD cinema for instance is frame sequential ... they just use 144Hz instead of 120Hz, at 120 Hz the flicker would be just as visible as with shutter glasses.

 

[patsu]

Can nVidia's 3D glasses be used with Bravia TV or any active shutter 3D monitors ?

As for SPU usage: On the PS3, if you want a reasonable number of triangles on screen you pretty much have to use the SPUs to do vertex processing. For example (going by their GDC slides) Uncharted 2 spends slightly less than 50% of it's combined SPU time on vertex processing.

The GDC Vault published 2 ND presentations. Unfortunately, they don't talk about culling on the SPUs. The U2 video presentations on other sites were rather high level. Do you happen to have a link to their GDC presentation ?

 

[Danalys]

Not all solutions which use polarization are frame parallel, RealD cinema for instance is frame sequential ... they just use 144Hz instead of 120Hz, at 120 Hz the flicker would be just as visible as with shutter glasses.

It's less of a problem with 24 fps material.

The frames go 1a 1b 1a 1b 1a 1b 2a 2b 2a 2b 2a 2b..

With 60 fps at 120 Hz you're getting 1a 1b 2a 2b 3a 3b 4a 4b ...

So there's little persistence of vision overlap of frames, and half of the time you're seeing incorrectly matched frames because of that little persistence of vision.

 

[tabs]

Last night I created a new account for Bad Company 2 to play online in stereoscopic 3D (without borking the stats of my main profile).

It was surprisingly not bad at all. I'm fairly competitive, and my game wasn't as good as usual but I can safely put that down to the low framerate and vsync having to be on (and the woes of having no kit unlocks). The implementation was very good. As soon as I've got a beefier GPU I can see myself using 3D in my main profile. Better depth perception was very useful for seeing enemies - plus it was very immersive to boot.


Playable but not smooth.
GTX285 @ 1680x1050 : DX10 : Medium settings : 2xAA : HBAO off

 

[SG79]

I tried out RE5 on the weekend in 3D, and those were comfortable glasses for sure. It was a neat effect, albeit it certainly added a fake element to the visuals that I can live without much like those old View Master glasses I had as a kid. Though I can see the appeal for some.

I experienced some eye fatigue after about 45 minutes but I guess it varies with each person.

 

[ShadowRunner]

I think the Nvidia glasses are quite comfortable actually. I finished almost the entire Dragon Age game with it. Avatar as well. Never experienced any headaches or eye fatigue.
Still, I'm hoping for displays that make use of polarized glasses instead of shutter tech. They don't darken the image nearly as much, are light weight, don't require any synching with the tv or your computer, don't flicker at all and most importantly: they are cheap and easy to replace.

I have read several times that polarised screens actally darken the image even more than shutter tech. Last figures i saw were that polarised blocks 75% of light while shutter was around 60%.

 

[patsu]

I tried out RE5 on the weekend in 3D, and those were comfortable glasses for sure. It was a neat effect, albeit it certainly added a fake element to the visuals that I can live without much like those old View Master glasses I had as a kid. Though I can see the appeal for some.

I experienced some eye fatigue after about 45 minutes but I guess it varies with each person.

Are you referring to this combo ?
http://kotaku.com/5235815/3d-resident-evil-5-coming-to-pc (RE5 3D on PC + nVidia 3D Vision)

Judging from the picture, the nVidia glasses is as bulky as the Sony/RealD glasses.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I have read several times that polarised screens actally darken the image even more than shutter tech. Last figures i saw were that polarised blocks 75% of light while shutter was around 60%.

The light reduction viewing Avatar in 3D was terrible. The ight scenes were extremeyl hard to make out. The TV adverts for the BRD/DVD have me feeling 3D wasn't the best way to view the film for that reason.

 

[patsu]

What's in the Avatar Blu-ray TV ad ?

This release does not have 3D support. The one in November may have it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What's in the Avatar Blu-ray TV ad ?

Just clips from the film. But they were clear and vibrant in a way the movie experience wasn't.

 

[TheWretched]

I have read several times that polarised screens actally darken the image even more than shutter tech. Last figures i saw were that polarised blocks 75% of light while shutter was around 60%.

Recently, c't tested it (German Magazine). And they say more like 10% of the original light only pass through. Reason being, that first, each eye only has half the time to accumulate light, which already is halving it. Then, the shutter glasses aren't just "on/off", they take time to do so. Thus, you don't see the full 8.3ms per eye either, but rather only 3ms. And, they aren't completely "see through" either.

I guess, for the time being, that polarized light is still the MUCH better option. Especially for people with glasses like me, as there are clip-ons available for those. Plus, those don't have any weight, don't cost a fortune (so multiple people viewing is no problem), and they don't each batteries for breakfast.

Depending on the screen (I've seen the Zalman 3D displays some years ago at Cebit), they might half the resolution, though, which is a bit of a drag, but going forward, seeing screens with 3840x1080 (twice the high as 1080P... or use some other way of doubling the resolution) shouldn't be a problem, as we already have comparable screens available. And those Zalmans actually are quite cheap... at least cheaper than the 120Hz Samsungs.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The old SEGA Master System LCD shutter glasses probably 'halved' the brightness when I used them. That be a perceptual halving, light being exponential and all.

 

[SG79]

Are you referring to this combo ?
http://kotaku.com/5235815/3d-resident-evil-5-coming-to-pc (RE5 3D on PC + nVidia 3D Vision)

Judging from the picture, the nVidia glasses is as bulky as the Sony/RealD glasses.

That's the one, but I haven't checked out Sony's yet. I thought they were comfortable enough for a pair of glasses, though I had to layer them over my own prescription ones.

 

[patsu]

Toshiba Working On Glasses-Less 3DTV Using Parallax Barrier Technology:
http://gizmodo.com/5525258/toshiba-working-on-glasses+less-3dtv-using-parallax-barrier-technology

Sharp was first out the door with its parallax barrier technology, which is apparently being used in the Nintendo 3DS, to skirt around wearing glasses when viewing 3D. Toshiba's now got similar a 21-inch display which also doesn't require glasses.

It may be 21-inches in size, but the resolution isn't quite full-HD, at 1280 x 800 WXGA. As with Sharp's parallax barrier displays, glasses won't be required to view 3D content, with Toshiba's press release about their "autostereoscopic high-definition display" describing it using an "integral imaging system (a "light field" display) to reproduce a real object as a 3D image that can be viewed without glasses over a wide range of viewing angles."

 

[tabs]

Hmm, wide range of viewing angles has me interested.

 

[MfA]

It's not an interesting technology, they just threw a whole lot of pixels at a lenticular screen.