The distance to screen for seeing "nearer objects" or "far away objects" varies a little as the eye orientation changes. The distance from the edge of the screen to the eye is different than from the centre of the screen to the eye. 3D keeps your eyes looking at different parts of the screen more often as you converge on the similar elements in each view.
3D Gaming*
- Thread starter Arwin
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The distance to screen for seeing "nearer objects" or "far away objects" varies a little as the eye orientation changes. The distance from the edge of the screen to the eye is different than from the centre of the screen to the eye. 3D keeps your eyes looking at different parts of the screen more often as you converge on the similar elements in each view.
Well it would have needed to have been converted to be 3D since it was shot before the 3D renaissance I prefer things to be displayed as they were designed to be.
I think the size depends on which model we tried.
I have also read that some 3D glasses will include prescription so you only need to wear one pair.
As long as the content is compelling, people will be enticed to try them. it will be a long pick-up cycle though. As it stands today, I don't think I will wear it for more than 2 hours. I can appreciate the 3D effects. It made the virtual world deeper and wider.
grandmaster
Veteran
Finally wrote up the GDC 2010 PlayStation 3D presentation:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-making-of-ps3-3d-article
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-making-of-ps3-3d-article
I wouldn't say that wearing a light headset or a Bluetooth mic for communication is the same as wearing something that covers your eyes and bulky to boot. Combine both, and you've got really uncomfortable sessions.
Besides, mics aren't a necessity and if a game is intended to be 3D, you're missing out by not wearing glasses. It's not unlike using 4:3 SDTV's with HD games.
Congrats for a very well written article. It makes me feel like I'm talking to the developers myself. Great job !
On how to choose the right compromises...
I really like how it brings up the UI issues in an easy to understand manner.
On the benefit of 3D in gameplay. This is how I felt when I saw the MS demo in person too ! It's a little hard to describe, but when I saw it for the first time, I immediately felt a little cheated by 2D LCD. A lot of the "visual volume" is missing from our games !
Sony's top priority in 3D tech should be to improve the 3D glasses.
There is a 3D Gaming Summit over the next 2 days in LA:
http://www.3dgamingsummit.com/
Gamasutra has a short article on 3D gaming:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/28158/Dowling_3D_Will_Succeed_When_Experiential_Not_Gimmick.php
http://www.3dgamingsummit.com/
Gamasutra has a short article on 3D gaming:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/28158/Dowling_3D_Will_Succeed_When_Experiential_Not_Gimmick.php
I'm a bit surprised, considering DS is going strong. There's also the question of if Nintendo are going to expand into a services company to compete with the other mobile platforms. They've made subtle headway on Wii, but are well short of offering a complete network connection option. Where's NintyNet? In fact, now hazy memorise drift into view, wasn't there talk of an integrated Nintendo network prior to Wii's release? There was a subtle 'viral' with investigation about the trademarked name and some artwork hinting at as much.
Panasonic Kicks Up 3D Plasma Production:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s.../Panasonic_Kicks_Up_3D_Plasma_Production/4577
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s.../Panasonic_Kicks_Up_3D_Plasma_Production/4577
We recently got a new demo laptop at work, which has nvidia's 3D vision (this model).
It was an interesting experience, but ultimately it really didn't click for me.
It was let down by a combination of bulky and fatiguing glasses, interference with lighting (some of the office lighting was pulsing very noticeably) and a subtle flicker still remaining in both the screen and especially peripheral vision still within the glasses.
Personally, even though I spent a full day setting the machine up, I could not bring myself to wear the glasses for more than 30 seconds at a time. It really just wasn't a comfortable experience.
Others in the office seemed to have similar feelings.
Some of the sample videos were exceptionally hard to watch, especially if they had text overlayed. Although burnout paradise looked quite nice.
Our software in particular was a total disaster. The scene was 3D, but lighting was being applied as max-depth, and bloom was and min-depth. It looked very, very wrong
...
Besides all that, I'm also quite skeptical how well 3D will translate to the PS3. I imagine 2D+depth will end up the overwhelming favorite method.
Certainly I don't expect to see games like uncharted upgraded to output two distinct frames. RSX isn't exactly a geometry monster, and most high end PS3 games are already spending a huge proportion of their SPU time doing vertex processing. Even with a resolution cut, doubling the vertex workload probably isn't going to be feasible for vast the majority of games.
However I imagine it's far more feasible on the 360, given the system is specifically designed for split rendering (tiling).
It'll be interesting to see if MS have any announcements concerning 3D at E3.
It was an interesting experience, but ultimately it really didn't click for me.
It was let down by a combination of bulky and fatiguing glasses, interference with lighting (some of the office lighting was pulsing very noticeably) and a subtle flicker still remaining in both the screen and especially peripheral vision still within the glasses.
Personally, even though I spent a full day setting the machine up, I could not bring myself to wear the glasses for more than 30 seconds at a time. It really just wasn't a comfortable experience.
Others in the office seemed to have similar feelings.
Some of the sample videos were exceptionally hard to watch, especially if they had text overlayed. Although burnout paradise looked quite nice.
Our software in particular was a total disaster. The scene was 3D, but lighting was being applied as max-depth, and bloom was and min-depth. It looked very, very wrong
...
Besides all that, I'm also quite skeptical how well 3D will translate to the PS3. I imagine 2D+depth will end up the overwhelming favorite method.
Certainly I don't expect to see games like uncharted upgraded to output two distinct frames. RSX isn't exactly a geometry monster, and most high end PS3 games are already spending a huge proportion of their SPU time doing vertex processing. Even with a resolution cut, doubling the vertex workload probably isn't going to be feasible for vast the majority of games.
However I imagine it's far more feasible on the 360, given the system is specifically designed for split rendering (tiling).
It'll be interesting to see if MS have any announcements concerning 3D at E3.
What is the refresh rate of the laptop monitor ? I can notice subtle flicker on a 120Hz 3D-ready TV. 240Hz should be better.
Of all the SonyStyle's 3D demo, I think the swimming polar bear, the soccer segment, and the MotorStorm 2 video stood out the best. I didn't notice any artifacts in them. The worst for me was Super Stardust because I find the image too "sharp" (It think it uses the "pop out of the screen" 3D effect, instead of the "look out of the window" effect).
The thing is once I understood what 3D effect is about, I can retain that notion in my mind for quite some time. Now whenever I see an open world 3D game (like the Red Dead Redemption videos), I can mentally apply the 3D-ness to the video, and _know_ what I am missing.
Hopefully, the developers can get there one day.
As for SPU time, I don't know if 3D rendering uses much SPU time... I thought some of the things can be shared between the left and right view. Can the vertex culling be done once for both left and right eyes ? We also know some effects like [strike]field of vision[/strike]depth of field will not be needed on a 3D game.
According to the interviews with Sony 3D developers, the first wave would probably be those games that have split screen support.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/108/1085581p1.html
Something like Flower would be nice too.
Of all the SonyStyle's 3D demo, I think the swimming polar bear, the soccer segment, and the MotorStorm 2 video stood out the best. I didn't notice any artifacts in them. The worst for me was Super Stardust because I find the image too "sharp" (It think it uses the "pop out of the screen" 3D effect, instead of the "look out of the window" effect).
The thing is once I understood what 3D effect is about, I can retain that notion in my mind for quite some time. Now whenever I see an open world 3D game (like the Red Dead Redemption videos), I can mentally apply the 3D-ness to the video, and _know_ what I am missing.
Hopefully, the developers can get there one day.
As for SPU time, I don't know if 3D rendering uses much SPU time... I thought some of the things can be shared between the left and right view. Can the vertex culling be done once for both left and right eyes ? We also know some effects like [strike]field of vision[/strike]depth of field will not be needed on a 3D game.
According to the interviews with Sony 3D developers, the first wave would probably be those games that have split screen support.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/108/1085581p1.html
Something like Flower would be nice too.
The 3D Gaming Summit in LA is over. Found a 2-part interview with David Coombes here:
http://www.gamerlive.tv/3d-gaming-summit
Hmm... there are more 3D demoes and videos in the above link (including a 3D GT5 preview).
http://www.gamerlive.tv/3d-gaming-summit
Hmm... there are more 3D demoes and videos in the above link (including a 3D GT5 preview).
It's 120hz.
While I don't expect great things from a laptop, it was still a disappointment. It is especially bad as a normal every-day monitor; by far the worst viewing angles I've ever seen.
That's true. Depth of field, etc, will make little sense in a 3D game (doesn't stop 3D movies using it
)You will get benefits for memory bandwidth if you process a vertex for both eyes simultaneously, but there is still a lot of duplicated work - and you still have to stream out two copies of the indices. But yes, it should be better than 50%.
As for SPU usage: On the PS3, if you want a reasonable number of triangles on screen you pretty much have to use the SPUs to do vertex processing. For example (going by their GDC slides) Uncharted 2 spends slightly less than 50% of it's combined SPU time on vertex processing.
Yup. That makes a lot of sense.
Yes.
Don't get me wrong - I'm keen on 3D. I'm just not keen on 3D glasses, flickering images, headaches and downgraded graphics.
I'm very interested to see what Nintendo manages with the 3DS, given it potentially solves a lot of these issues and is being designed specifically for 3D.
Another article on the 3D gaming summit:
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/24/3d-gaming-summit/
It sounds like everyone is still working on their technologies. We should be able to see Sony's effort in June when they release the new Bravias. Too bad they don't make monitors.
It's also interesting to see Insomniac's Mike Acton in the 3D panel. ^_^
The million dollar question is this:
I personally think if they keep improving on the current 3D demoes, 3D can (will) be a game changer; mainly because of 2 things:
(1) We are born with the capability. We will identify with it naturally -- assuming the technology is any good (or good enough to boot).
(2) As I mentioned above, the 3D perception is "sticky". I didn't expect this part. The moment I saw the "visual volume" in 3D games, my brain retained it. I can mentally project the 3D-ness of "2D" games now, and "see" what's missing in the games today.
The only obstacle is the 3D glasses. We know refresh rate can go higher. Cell TV is 480Hz in software today. Should not be a problem to do it using cheaper hardware.
EDIT: Just realized I typed "field of vision" instead of "depth of field". Thanks for correcting !
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/24/3d-gaming-summit/
It sounds like everyone is still working on their technologies. We should be able to see Sony's effort in June when they release the new Bravias. Too bad they don't make monitors.
It's also interesting to see Insomniac's Mike Acton in the 3D panel. ^_^
The million dollar question is this:
I personally think if they keep improving on the current 3D demoes, 3D can (will) be a game changer; mainly because of 2 things:
(1) We are born with the capability. We will identify with it naturally -- assuming the technology is any good (or good enough to boot).
(2) As I mentioned above, the 3D perception is "sticky". I didn't expect this part. The moment I saw the "visual volume" in 3D games, my brain retained it. I can mentally project the 3D-ness of "2D" games now, and "see" what's missing in the games today.
The only obstacle is the 3D glasses. We know refresh rate can go higher. Cell TV is 480Hz in software today. Should not be a problem to do it using cheaper hardware.
EDIT:
Just realized I typed "field of vision" instead of "depth of field". Thanks for correcting !
Can the glasses work at 240Hz yet?
Ambient lighting is very important to how good the experience is with shutter glasses. I'd try that laptop in a different environment. Preferably one without fluorescent lights. I tend to play with low light levels.
Maybe I'm just not sensitive to that sort of thing, but it surprises me that a few people think the glasses are bulky and heavy. I find them light and comfortable. Quite often after gaming I've done other stuff on the PC and forgot I've had them on (until the left eye starts flashing on and off to notify me that the glasses are powering down - always surprises the hell out of me).
Maybe I'm just not sensitive to that sort of thing, but it surprises me that a few people think the glasses are bulky and heavy. I find them light and comfortable. Quite often after gaming I've done other stuff on the PC and forgot I've had them on (until the left eye starts flashing on and off to notify me that the glasses are powering down - always surprises the hell out of me).
