3D Gaming*

[MfA]

It's the mere requirement of the use of any type of glasses that has me scratching my head.

I think it's partially a patent thing, all the glasses based approaches are ancient and defacto royaltee free ...

Maybe I'm wrong though and we will soon see this on HDTVs :

http://masterimage3d.com/products/3d-lcd

PS. oops, I completely forgot (I had considered this before, but my memory failed me) but this doesn't work with more than 1 viewer.

PPS. static lenticulars aren't very practical either, Philips used that and it cut resolution by a factor 7 ... also you get sweetspot issues.

 

[Quaz51]

Hands-on report plus tons of comment from the R&D team will be up on Eurogamer/DF tomorrow. Then a 5,000 word one-on-one interview (sometimes meandering a bit into more of a discussion!) sometime next week. It's a fascinating insight not just into the 3D process but also into the cooperation between different Sony divisions.

great

 

[Quaz51]

Sony Shutterglass for the Bravia 3D are customized. seem they have removed the front polarized filter

 

[MfA]

Lenticular displays are probably 5+yrs away from being cheap enough and high enough quality for household TV.

If we get displays with enough horizontal resolution to give a good quality image with static lenticulars it can probably just display holograms in the first place (You need quite a ridiculous amount of resolution to get rid of the sweetspot issue.)

 

[patsu]

This isn't a mere resolution jump introduced with mass produced 1080p screen in 2006 alongside BD and then-HD-DVD. It's a major evolution and its start is yawn worthy sadly.

The opening salvo is Avatar. Looking at the box office and the amount of news it generated when I was travelling in Asia, it is hardly a yawn. I read a few days ago that the Chinese government demanded their local cinemas to take down 2D Avatar to make enough screen time for indigenous movies (They ration foreign movies to make sure their local movie industry can survive).

The 3D World Cup, and assorted 3D channels are major steps too. It's just that Sony has not started marketing on the consumer front. The systems are not ready yet. Plus people are very aware of 3D movie already based on the survey above.

Hands-on report plus tons of comment from the R&D team will be up on Eurogamer/DF tomorrow. Then a 5,000 word one-on-one interview (sometimes meandering a bit into more of a discussion!) sometime next week. It's a fascinating insight not just into the 3D process but also into the cooperation between different Sony divisions.

About time !

 

[SG79]

Lenticular displays are probably 5+yrs away from being cheap enough and high enough quality for household TV.

And that's when I'll make the jump. My vision isn't perfect, but my prescription is pretty weak and I intend to keep it that way. There is also the issue of having to layer one pair of glasses over another that's just a trunoff.

Are all upcoming TV capable of receiving 120Hz signals? Those so-called 120Hz sets have been around since mid 2007 and all they do is upconvert a 60Hz signal to 120Hz for motion reproduction (proprietary algorithm with each manufacturer too). There are some Hitachi DLPs that accept 120Hz native signals though.

I think it's partially a patent thing, all the glasses based approaches are ancient and defacto royaltee free ...

All goes back to the costs of jump starting the move I suppose. Let's see how it pans out.

 

[ERP]

Are all upcoming TV capable of receiving 120Hz signals? Those so-called 120Hz sets have been around since mid 2007 and all they do is upconvert a 60Hz signal to 120Hz for motion reproduction (proprietary algorithm with each manufacturer too). There are some Hitachi DLPs that accept 120Hz native signals though.

No but once you're using a high frequency panel the incremental cost to add it as an input format for the manufacturer is negligible, and you get to call the TV "3D Ready".

 

[MfA]

Sony Shutterglass for the Bravia 3D are customized. seem they have removed the front polarized filter

So what if I tilt my head?

 

[SG79]

The opening salvo is Avatar. Looking at the box office and the amount of news it generated when I was travelling in Asia, it is hardly a yawn.

Not talking about movie industry implementation here, but the home implementation (and good God, did tech do wonders for that mediocre movie.. close to being the highest grossing of all time). The select broadcasts in 3D may be commendable but that's still within the niche sector and unexciting. I don't know about wearing glasses to watch FIFA games, but they're certainly hitting a wide audience.

Factor in the issue of screen size (where it's not an issue in theatres), and we're off to a start hardly worth the premium. I'll get on board when it matures. BD/HD-DVD and 1080p sets aside, I typically waited 2-3 years. It may be longer this time around.

 

[Quaz51]

So what if I tilt my head?

Ghosting
at 45° crosstalk is total
at 90 = inversed view

but very good comfort like passive glasses because shutter is effective only on the screen surface, not on all the field of view. no flickering or interference with artificle light. and image is more luminous
need to keep your head horizontaly but it's necessary for all type of stereoscopy because stereoscopy only work in this position (because parallax are horizontal)

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I've actually heard a gossip* that Avatar was in part funded by the TV manufacturers so that they will have some prime content to drive the process.

As wild as it sounds, it kinda explains the timing of Avatar and all the CES announcements; and the fact that Fox has never really seemed to worry about their investment...

*And just to make it clear, not from my pals who have been working at Weta...

 

[patsu]

Not talking about movie industry implementation here, but the home implementation (and good God, did tech do wonders for that mediocre movie.. close to being the highest grossing of all time). The select broadcasts in 3D may be commendable but that's still within the niche sector and unexciting. I don't know about wearing glasses to watch FIFA games, but they're certainly hitting a wide audience.

The 3D movie will generate awareness and desire for home 3D.

For a hi-tech venture, the typical move is to start from a niche first. In this case, they are targeting the Sports people but the h/w will limit penetration to consumers who don't mind the limitations. The move to 3D will trigger/accelerate more innovation along this direction (like 3D without glasses ^_^).

Factor in the issue of screen size (where it's not an issue in theatres), and we're off to a start hardly worth the premium. I'll get on board when it matures. BD/HD-DVD and 1080p sets aside, I typically waited 2-3 years. It may be longer this time around.

You're probably in the late-early adopter or early mainstream.

EDIT: It's a large scale industry migration involving many moving parts, so we shouldn't expect Wii and iPhone kinda of fast adoption.

 

[SG79]

You're probably in the late-early adopter or early mainstream.

Late early adopter, or in the case of HDTV, early mainstream (in 2001 for me). I jumped onto DVD in 99, but I was sold on 1080p and BD so I upgraded within months even with the ongoing format war.

Perhaps saying that 3D is niche was a bit silly since every major step has been that was at the start. But this is the first time I feel underwhelmed. Part of it has to do with the fact that I've seen 3D movies and didn't think much of the effect, but largely because of the issue of wearing glasses.

I suppose I might feel different as it matures, if the launch is successful enough to warrant advancing further.

 

[patsu]

I just spoke to someone who ported Quake to 3D as an intern for a minor TV manufacturer a few years ago. I was asking for 3D TV/monitor recommendation. He commented that the added depth perception definitely helped in gameplay ("It's more fun !" was his words). The most obvious benefit is throwing grenade accurately and using the grenade launcher.

He was critical of the need for 3D glasses too, but agreed that it's a good step forward. It will depend on the consumer reception when the first wave of 3D content rolls in.

He also mentioned that mobile devices will use autostereoscopic display since the user can tilt the handset easily to adjust viewing angle (Not sure about glare though). No glasses will be needed there. Hopefully those work come to fruition soon ! (He was working on a cellphone autostereoscopic display)

PS3 was going to have dual HDMI before the 1.3, my guess is it was for the extra bandwidth rather than the dual screen they were making fuss about back then. Kutaragi was blabbering about 120 Hz back then too.

According to some, dual HDMI may solve the problem of connecting to existing AV receivers (one to receiver and one directly to 3DTV). It looks like a stopgap measure.

 

[MfA]

I just had a great idea for an autostereoscopic (ie. no glasses) display ... vibrating lenticulars are an old idea, but kind of hard to make for a large display (that's a lot of mass you are vibrating at high speed, at least for a living room appliance, even with counterweights it's nasty). What about using electrowetting to create lenses and modulate voltages to roll the oil "lenses" left/right? Of course after googling I found someone else had the idea a couple years earlier ...

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0100922.html

Still ... it's the most practical method of autostereoscopic displays I've "seen" yet, dunno if they even prototyped it or just threw it towards the patent office just in case though.

 

[Blazkowicz]

I saw an autostereoscopic display a couple years ago in a mall, it was pretty weird. moiré, jumpy, a weird pixel pattern, requiring a bit of effort to look at it. but it was a cool techdemo, displaying some soda advertisement.

I can't write it off based on early tech but I clearly side with the advice that only glasses based stereo should be considered at least for the near future.
I put it on par with anaglyph gaming I tried to show off. very different issues but not meant for prolonged use in both cases. only anaglyph is worse, you almost fear becoming color blind .

 

[Blazkowicz]

I've found good instructions to view 3D images without any kind of hardware whatsoever
but it's pretty tricky.
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/erker/freeview.html

to my awe I easily can look at the parallel images. the test image is very simple. cross-eyed viewing is another beat. I can look at a pencil mid air, and see what should be the stereo image behind. but removing the pencil and keeping the same exact focus is impossible for now - the stereo image disappears before I look at it.

 

[zed]

I've found good instructions to view 3D images without any kind of hardware whatsoever
but it's pretty tricky.
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/erker/freeview.html

to my awe I easily can look at the parallel images. the test image is very simple. cross-eyed viewing is another beat. I can look at a pencil mid air, and see what should be the stereo image behind. but removing the pencil and keeping the same exact focus is impossible for now - the stereo image disappears before I look at it.

Prolly worse than masturbation for your eyes

I see the 3 pictures but the 3d effect is nowhere near as good as in the cinema

 

[chris1515]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/playstation-3d-hands-on

Grandmaster article about 3dgaming on playstation.

 

[Crossbar]

Thanks, a great read!

I wonder if some of the existing titles will get the 3D update for free.

As the market will be so tiny from start, they might as well make it free updates and use it as some kind of marketing for 3D TVs.