360: VF5 Playable Preview

[Rockster]

I think is varies from game to game. The more time a developer has with a game the more they can polish it. The same is basically true for Rainbow Six: Vegas. There are graphical improvements on the PS3 version as well as 5 additional levels.

You are kidding right? I've directly compared RS: Vegas and the PS3 version is less detailed. Textures, models, particle effects, and frame-rate all worse. Couldn't find a very good comparison online, but your can try and discern the differences here: http://www.gamingbits.com/content/view/2191/2/

 

[pakotlar]

what makes you think that?

To add what others have said, my own reason for expecting this is that it has been the trend thus far. While it is true that it is impossible to tell what the future holds, I don't see a good reason for this changing. We're no longer at PS3 launch, but nearly 9 months in, and so far its held pretty true with few exceptions.

 

[Truespeed]

You are kidding right? I've directly compared RS: Vegas and the PS3 version is less detailed. Textures, models, particle effects, and frame-rate all worse. Couldn't find a very good comparison online, but your can try and discern the differences here: http://www.gamingbits.com/content/view/2191/2/

So you compared both versions based on material you found online? Just incredible.

Here's the Yahoo games review:

Link

On the PS3, Vegas exhibits few graphical improvements over the 360 version. Nothing wrong with that, of course -- it still stands out as one of the best-looking shooters around. It's the logical procession of the graphical muscle in Advanced Warfighter and the ambience in the Splinter Cell and Prince of Persia games

Five new maps join the original 15. At its original release, Vegas quickly became one of the most played games on Xbox Live, where it remains to this day, and given the sparse selection of online games on the PS3 you can safely expect it to become extremely popular. If you're feeling the need for a robust PS3 online experience, Rainbow Six Vegas has everything you need.

It's a real pleasure to see Rainbow Six given such royal treatment, particularly if you're a fan of the series

 

[Nesh]

New IGN Preview.
http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/798/798595p1.html



Its not the first multi platform game that is graphically superior on the Xbox 360. I think its a trend that will continue till the end of this generation.

I compared some pics and indeed the 360 version has less aliasing. But I did notice thought that the textures in some enviroments probably lack some AF on the 360 version. Some colors look a little different too

 

[djskribbles]

You are kidding right? I've directly compared RS: Vegas and the PS3 version is less detailed. Textures, models, particle effects, and frame-rate all worse. Couldn't find a very good comparison online, but your can try and discern the differences here: http://www.gamingbits.com/content/view/2191/2/

wow, you own R6 Vegas on PS3 before release?
or did you just go by that user comparison using Gametrailers videos? not a fair comparison imo.

anyway... back on topic.

 

[Dr. Nick]

http://www.xboxyde.com/news_4499_en.html
For some reason it seems like with ports from on system to another Textures seem to take a hit. It doesn't matter if it's a PS3 port or an 360 port. Anybody have an idea why? In this games case is it the method of AA that is causing this issue?

 

[inefficient]

http://www.xboxyde.com/news_4499_en.html
For some reason it seems like with ports from on system to another Textures seem to take a hit. It doesn't matter if it's a PS3 port or an 360 port. Anybody have an idea why? In this games case is it the method of AA that is causing this issue?

I don't think it's the texture resolution, I think it's the texture filtering.


And did they change the water in this scene?

360
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/5653/831_0007.jpg

vs

PS3
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/641/641054/img_4272674.html


Or is it just strangely still in that particular shot? In the PS3 version the water was constantly moving.

 

[Rolf N]

http://www.xboxyde.com/news_4499_en.html

These can't be XBox 360 gameplay images. Too much AA (8x8 EER or more, irregular pattern, might be a PC shot from a Geforce 8800's coverage AA or something).
This one is nice for inspection, watch for the beam edges:
http://www.xboxyde.com/pop_image.html?G=5653&N=10

 

[Dr. Nick]

+ For water wave simulation, VS reads a FP32 texture height map by VTF, then does displacement mapping to transform vertices on the water. With this FP32 wave height map converted into a normal map, PS does shadow processing. Muddy water is drawn by PS using velocity/power information in FP32 wave height map. Thanks to VTF, VS can detect the collision of water splashes and it's used to generate ripples when each water splash hits the water.

I remember that this is what they did to do water in VF5 for the arcade. The screen shot could just not be showing the effect in action but based on what is going on in the two screenshots it appears not to be there.

 

[inefficient]

I remember that this is what they did to do water in VF5 for the arcade. The screen shot could just not be showing the effect in action but based on what is going on in the two screenshots it appears not to be there.

Thats for the PS3 version. That was translated from this article I remember
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20061025/3dvf5.htm


Maybe that that effect could not be reproduced acceptably on the 360. If I remember correctly, ATI GPUs do not support VTF (Vertex Texture Fetch)

 

[Dr. Nick]

Thats for the PS3 version. That was translated from this article I remember
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20061025/3dvf5.htm


Maybe that that effect could not be reproduced acceptably on the 360. If I remember correctly, ATI GPUs do not support VTF (Vertex Texture Fetch)

The Xenos should be able to do VTFbut it might require a different method to get it all working.
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/4/9

 

[Tap In]

good to see the promise of Anti-Alliasing for 360 being put to obvious use here compared to the other version.

I know AA is on some PS3 games as well but as joker and other MP devs have pointed out it is easier to implement (less resources used) than typical systems.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Maybe that that effect could not be reproduced acceptably on the 360. If I remember correctly, ATI GPUs do not support VTF (Vertex Texture Fetch)

The Xenos should be able to do VTFbut it might require a different method to get it all working.

Xenos is a unified shading architecture who's functions are orthogonal over VS or PS programs - if PS has access to textures then VS does as well. Along with the 16 standard texture filter units, Xenos has 16 single sample FP samplers that are ideal for VTF operations.

With regards to how they are used, it'll be defined by DirectX, however given GF6 (used in the archade version of VF5) largely follows DX specifications they are not going to be a million miles away from each other, even though the arcade version (I presume) is OGL based.

 

[Dr. Nick]

Xenos is a unified shading architecture who's functions are orthogonal over VS or PS programs - if PS has access to textures then VS does as well. Along with the 16 standard texture filter units, Xenos has 16 single sample FP samplers that are ideal for VTF operations.

With regards to how they are used, it'll be defined by DirectX, however given GF6 (used in the archade version of VF5) largely follows DX specifications they are not going to be a million miles away from each other, even though the arcade version (I presume) is OGL based.

Could the graphics API also account for some of the differences that we have been seeing with some of the multiplatform games?

 

[Rangers]

GAF insider is now claiming 360 VF5 has online play..http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166921

 

[Dr. Nick]

Without it I don't expect it to sell much better than it did on the PS3. Many 360 gamers would say this after having DOAU and DOA4 online "No online=No buy". I hope for some good news from Sega at E3...for once.

 

[Gamington]

Why are we still talkling about "anti-aliasing" on these next gen machines...??? Why cant devs make jaggies a thing of the past? its 2007 for gods sake jaggies on PS#..WTF?

 

[Rangers]

Why are we still talkling about "anti-aliasing" on these next gen machines...??? Why cant devs make jaggies a thing of the past? its 2007 for gods sake jaggies on PS#..WTF?

Hehe..a clear example for diminishing returns folks that we could use a LOT more gfx power..

Hell, if nothing else 60FPS 16XAA (not even mentioning 1080P) would be the norm if we had hit a wall.

Oh yeah we're gonna need a lot more power..

 

[Mintmaster]

Maybe that that effect could not be reproduced acceptably on the 360. If I remember correctly, ATI GPUs do not support VTF (Vertex Texture Fetch)

Xenos will destroy RSX or NV4x at VTF by a factor of 10 or more (assuming, of course, that you are VTF limited). As will any Geforce 8xxx (even the 8400) or R600. Unified architectures rule at VTF.

There's no technical reason for excluding such an effect on XB360. Either the screenshot was taken while the water was at rest, or they just didn't bother porting the effect.

 

[morlock]

Hehe..a clear example for diminishing returns folks that we could use a LOT more gfx power..

Hell, if nothing else 60FPS 16XAA (not even mentioning 1080P) would be the norm if we had hit a wall.

Oh yeah we're gonna need a lot more power..

Is really 8x/16x/32x etc the best answer to nice jaggie-free rendered images? Would'nt another method of rendering or atlest MSAA be a better solution in the end?

When i see a jaggiefest-image like the one from the new Burnout, I feel like the devs are doing something wrong and that 2/4/8xAA would'nt help the outcome.