360 Price: The Industry Reacts

[Joe DeFuria]

No it doesn't. Since game makers know for a fact 100% of the customers have a HDD, they can simply put a HDD Required logo on the game. It won't cost them any sales since the entire userbase DOES have a HDD.

No, since MS told devs not to assume the hard drive is present, they must assume that 100% MAY NOT have a hard drive installed, even if every xbox 360 sold came with a removable hard drive.

No you buy it based on games that come out, and how unique, innovate and exciting those games are.

Correct.

KOTOR sold alot of systems, it would not have been the same game without a HDD.

I disagree. There's really no way to know that. Unless we can run a game with the HD both enabled and disabled. We'll see how the X360 games run "with or without" the hard drive, for example, and then you can start to make such claims.

I think your wrong thinking that just because it can be physically detahced that develoeprs won't make use of it...

I am not wrong ....though you are misunderstanding what I'm saying.

I'm not saying that devs won't make some use of it because its detachable. SOME game surely will. I'm saying that a hard drive that is built in and can NOT BE TURNED OFF or removed, is a much different situation from a development standpoint than a hard drive that can be removed. That is, unless MS requires the hard drive to be in place to boot the machine at all.

it really would not be a big deal to but a HDD Required label on a game as long as the HDD is a standard feature.

It would make almost no sense for MS to have a removable hard drive if the plan all along was for it to be a "standard feature." Much more cost effective to build it into the unit.

With 2 SKU's it won't happen nearly as much because they WILL lose sales if they make a game HDD Required.

I don't know how many times I can say this...since MS has told developers to NOT ASSUME that the hard drive is there, there will BE NO GAMES with a HDD Required sticker.

Will a "HDD recommended" sticker make them lose sales?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

That is the worst excuse I can think.How can she play, she will only play the first level over and over.

Huh? I don't recall anyone with non Hard Drive consoles being forced to play the first level over and over....

 

[ninelven]

"No, they don't."

So I'm supposed to leave my rpg on 24/7 and not play anything else until I beat it and if I die after 42 hours I have to start all over... I'll pass.

 

[Acert93]

I don't know how many times I can say this...since MS has told developers to NOT ASSUME that the hard drive is there, there will BE NO GAMES with a HDD Required sticker.

That assumes too much.

There are games that are "Online Only"

There are games that require a periphrial (like a light gun)

And there are even games that require a HDD

And personally that some MMO at some point requiring a HDD is not a stretch or even a bad thing

 

[Joe DeFuria]

So I'm supposed to leave my rpg on 24/7 and not play anything else until I beat it and if I die after 42 hours I have to start all over...

Of course not. Removable memory makes it much less frustrating.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

And personally that some MMO at some point requiring a HDD is not a stretch or even a bad thing

Agreed.

My point is, MS's decision to make the hard drive removable, and the console usable without the drive installed, is what makes the XBox360 different than the x-box. NOT the fact that there is a SKU available without one.

The "core system" SKU is NOT what diminishes the value of the hard drive...MS made that decision LONG AGO when they designed the console the way they did.

 

[scooby_dooby]

"No, since MS told devs not to assume the hard drive is present, they must assume that 100% MAY NOT have a hard drive installed, even if every xbox 360 sold came with a removable hard drive."

This could not be more illogical. Since it's sold as standard everyone WILL have one, it just may not be attached. Dev's can easily sell a HDD-Only game becauyse they can rest assured that although it may not be attached, the user does in fact OWN a HDD so they will be able to play the developers game without having to invest more money in a peripheral(in other words the old catch 22 that has always plagued perihperaks would no longer exist)

"I disagree. There's really no way to know that. Unless we can run a game with the HD both enabled and disabled. We'll see how the X360 games run "with or without" the hard drive, for example, and then you can start to make such claims."

Ya and you could make teh same argument about the xbox not needing 64MB of ram, or not need a 733Mhz CPU. Point is they used it, it made te game better, and even WITH the HDD load times were horrendous alot of the AAA exclusives, and I've already given concrete examples.

I'm saying that a hard drive that is built in and can NOT BE TURNED OFF or removed, is a much different situation from a development standpoint than a hard drive that can be removed. That is, unless MS requires the hard drive to be in place to boot the machine at all.

I agree it's a different situation, but as long as it's standard the catch 22 that plagues peripherals is not present so we could expect MOST developers to support it. Detachable but standard wil lrecieve slightly less support than non-detachable, but I'd contend that the difference in the level of support would still be much MUCH higher than it will be now, with a non-standard SKU available.


I don't know how many times I can say this...since MS has told developers to NOT ASSUME that the hard drive is there, there will BE NO GAMES with a HDD Required sticker.

Well I'm pretty sure FF11 will be HDD required, but I get your point. However, MS only told Dev's this because they were planning on releaseing this non-HD version. If it was simply in regards to the possibility a user might temporarily remove the HDD it would be a non-issue for Developers. 100% of the userbase would have the ability to insert their HDD if necessary.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Ex-Bethsada guy's opinion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all third party Xbox 360 developers combined times 2.

You're in a state of pure backlash. Wait 2 months and re-evaluate.

Also, this guy is not trustworthy. Research him if you don't believe me.

That is the worst excuse I can think.How can she play, she will only play the first level over and over.

"Memory card"

Plus, not every game is a huge game. Maybe she just wants to put in PGR3 to play Geometry Wars. Or maybe Live Arcade loads the game from the net instead of the hard drive, so she can play Bejewelled.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Most games have a save to continue from where you left off, including loading settings files for all the extra courses/cars/etrc. you've unlocked. Take away those saves and though you can play the game, you can only play it from the vanilla startup. The same problem exists with memory cards too of course, but a single removable drive with ALL your saves versus a couple of memory cards (one for you, one for wife+kids say) means transportability affects those left behind.

I think it's a fairly minor issue. How many people are really going to cart their stuff around? I thought if you wanted to share with your friends you did it over Live!

 

[AlphaWolf]

Everyone knows how badly the lack of a hard drive crippled ps2 sales. Xbox360 is doomed.

<end sarcasm>

 

[Rur0ni]

Eh...

I think the plus of having a HD is better than not having one, not just for games, but for downloaded content. Sure it may cost more, but if the games can be improved by a decent amount because of a HD, it should be there. So what if it costs $399, people who want next-gen will pay that price. PS3 will be no cheaper. And the 360 will be out 6 months+ before it.

Sure most people didnt make a decision when buying a console whether or not it had a harddrive, because it was just an accepted fact that it did have one, its supposed to be almost transparent to the user. And those that wish to dig deeper reap more benefits from said hard drive.

I have to agree with that article on the ferrari bit, having a chopped down SKU is not good. Sure the $299 price is more attractive, but with the hardware you're putting in there to begin with(by PC standards a monster), why bother. Go for the gusto.

 

[pc999]

Just imagine how many Millions user would buy every new map/level/... from e.g.Halo/PDZ/any decent game@ 50 cents every 2 weeks, that would be millions on proffit, and I (as most of people I am certain) would love, just see the marketing "Here games never finish..."

 

[Joe DeFuria]

This could not be more illogical.

And yet, that's what happened.

Since it's sold as standard everyone WILL have one, it just may not be attached. Dev's can easily sell a HDD-Only game becauyse they can rest assured that although it may not be attached, the user does in fact OWN a HDD...

That doesn't matter. They still have to code with the assumption that the HD is not there!.

I agree it's a different situation, but as long as it's standard the catch 22 that plagues peripherals is not present so we could expect MOST developers to support it.

All we can do is agree to disagree.

How many developers (some other thread) basically said "the HD-less SKU doesn't matter because we were told not to assume the hard drive was there"? Just about all of them.

Detachable but standard wil lrecieve slightly less support than non-detachable...

Again, disagree.

Well I'm pretty sure FF11 will be HDD required, but I get your point. However, MS only told Dev's this because they were planning on releaseing this non-HD version.

1) You don't know that
2) On the other hand...As I said...it would make little sense to have the HDD as detachable in the first place if the assumption was it would always be there.

Developers have said that from day 1, MS has told them not to assume the hard drive was there. Whether or not they actually planned on having a HD-less SKU at launch or some time in the future is largely irrelevant to how the dev houses are coding their games.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Agree to disagree it is

 

[PG2G]

Just imagine how many Millions user would buy every new map/level/... from e.g.Halo/PDZ/any decent game@ 50 cents every 2 weeks, that would be millions on proffit, and I (as most of people I am certain) would love, just see the marketing "Here games never finish..."

I think people would complain even more than they are now if they were to start using microtransations like that.

 

[jvd]

I think people would complain even more than they are now if they were to start using microtransations like that.

Na they do well already buying map packs and what not . As long as u hit it on the right price point your fine .

Anyway i still think maps and whtat not wil lbe made by the players just not in the force that ms thinks they were going to get

 

[pc999]

Na they do well already buying map packs and what not . As long as u hit it on the right price point your fine .

Anyway i still think maps and whtat not wil lbe made by the players just not in the force that ms thinks they were going to get

Agree, but I do have my doubt if thre will be any good comunity (user and dev suport), at least anytime soon, just now XB starts to get map editors without HDD standart...

BTW PG2G see my sig, I really think they could do a great thing, IF...

 

[jvd]

Agree, but I do have my doubt if thre will be any good comunity (user and dev suport), at least anytime soon, just now XB starts to get map editors without HDD standart...

BTW PG2G see my sig, I really think they could do a great thing, IF...

well thats the thing. xbox live started it , xbox live will continue it esp as the software seems to have evolved to deal with this issue specificly .

Now that users can make maps for some games we will see a bigger update and users can set the price they want .

 

[Nicked]

The ex-Bethsoft's founders comments are interesting.
Yes he no longer works for them, but heres someone knowledgeable speaking openly on the HDD issue; he has no reason to lie. Every other interviewee has a vested interest to downplay the issue. I wonder what everyones true thoughts on the matter are.

My point is, MS's decision to make the hard drive removable, and the console usable without the drive installed, is what makes the XBox360 different than the x-box. NOT the fact that there is a SKU available without one.

The "core system" SKU is NOT what diminishes the value of the hard drive...MS made that decision LONG AGO when they designed the console the way they did.

Um ,if every system had a removable HDD they would've reasonably allowed developers to assume it was there.

Its IMO exactly because they wanted a SKU without a HDD (or to remove the HDD in a later revision) that they have a removable drive in the first place. If they didn't want a HDDless X360 then they likely would've went with a cheaper inbuilt 3.5". They intend to make money this generation and a $100 HDD will do just that.

 

[Bohdy]

That doesn't matter. They still have to code with the assumption that the HD is not there!.

That is a BS argument, mate. Do developers have to code with the assumption that the controller is not there? No, they are relying on it for people to play their game, but make allowances for the possibility that one is not currently plugged in.

Edited: Better example.