360 Price: The Industry Reacts

[Slay]

Here are some comments from developers, media, and analysts about the pricing scheme of xbox 360, it seems that Bethesda are realy pissed about the lack of a standard hardrive in the console.

CS Weaver
Founder
Bethesda Softworks
Also Visiting Scholar at M.I.T

"The idea of selling a $299 'basic' (read crippled) version of the new Xbox may make for minor bragging rights and a little press, but it is akin to buying a Ferrari F430 only to find that while the car is beautiful and has a powerful engine, the model you bought lacks a transmission capable of getting out of first gear. You may be able to rev the deep-throated engine and impress the neighbors, but in truth, you will barely be able to get out of the garage.

"This is one of those silly market concepts dreamed up by a middle-aged, non-gamer who once worked at Proctor and Gamble. To him or her I say, 'Stick to Tide and Pringles.'

"With the original Xbox, I admired Microsoft for having the imagination to incorporate an Ethernet connector. Even though they got the initial timing wrong, it was a leap of faith by a major player who showed the industry they were willing to back a vision. The current play of $299 for a box that is inadequate in order to have bragging rights over Sony is as bad an idea as the RJ45 connector was a good one.

"So, listen up Microsoft - never disrespect your audience. We will understand if you tell us that you cannot match PS3 in price because of the different approach you have taken in order to achieve a better end result. But do NOT confuse the retail chain with a near worthless SKU and try to pull one over on your public for the right to play shell games with price when the PS3 is released next year.

"That is a recipe for more bad word of mouth than any 'under $300' price will ever achieve in the hearts and minds of your customers. It takes fourteen positive impressions to register “awarenessâ€￾ with a consumer. It takes but one negative impression to wipe it out. I figure with your initial leap of faith added to this latest stupid pet trick, you’re just about even…

The rest of the article here http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=796&Itemid=2&limit=1&limitstart=0

 

[Acert93]

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=546338&postcount=387

Already posted, some positive, some negative.

 

[hadareud]

Here are some comments from developers, media, and analysts about the pricing scheme of xbox 360, it seems that Bethesda are realy pissed about the lack of a standard hardrive in the console.
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=796&Itemid=2&limit=1&limitstart=0

CS Weaver is not with Bethesda anymore, so I would hardly think this means that Bethesda is pissed off.

This is a good article though

 

[scooby_dooby]

Pretty funny how the only ones that think it's a good idea, despite a handful of the devs, are the Analysts...I wonder who we can thank for this oh-so-wise decision....hmmm

 

[pc999]

Well how many of this guys arent bias, anyway can anybody ask them WHAT THE HELL ARE OUR OPTIONS, besides payng 400 or 400+++++++ in a very sort time.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Oh, those analysts.....

 

[Shifty Geezer]

To me it seemed rather like ...

Devs : makes no difference we weren't using the HDD anyway :neutral:
Gamers : We wanted HDD throughout as that'd be better games, but now devs won't use it, boo
Analysts : a great decision to maximize profit competitivity in a fluctuating post-modernistic entertainments infrastructure, and thus captilize on dynamic market shifts in response to competitive maneouvres by rival corporate factions whilst still maintain high unit liquidity and shelf-space throughput

 

[pc999]

The only one how cares about analyst are MS, and a lot people think the had make a big %$#$#&, and lost at the very minimum (inside XB fans) 20% of sales, plus a big proffit from Live Silver .

So the analysts...

 

[scooby_dooby]

pretty much all the dev's said they either were going to use the HDD in a limited capacity, or that they weren't going to use it because they must cater to the lowest common denominator.

not one dev said they weren't planning on using the HDD if was standard across all models. across the board it was, "well we were told not to depend on it, so we're not gonnna"

 

[PG2G]

The only one how cares about analyst are MS, and a lot people think the had make a big %$#$#&, and lost at the very minimum (inside XB fans) 20% of sales, plus a big proffit from Live Silver .

So the analysts...

I'm pretty sure that if they lost 20% of their sales, its because the damn thing costs $399, not the fact that there is a core version available.

 

[gurgi]

I doubt many developers for the xbox360 are going to go on the record against this move, it just isn't good business. Not that we need 'industry insiders' to spell out the obvious here, even if we could expect candid responses.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

not one dev said they weren't planning on using the HDD if was standard across all models. across the board it was, "well we were told not to depend on it, so we're not gonnna"

Which is nothing new and has been known well before the non HD core version became an official SKU.

In short: the fact that there's a "core" version being sold makes no difference to devs. The fact that it's a removable device is what makes the difference...and this has always been the case.

 

[pc999]

I'm pretty sure that if they lost 20% of their sales, its because the damn thing costs $399, not the fact that there is a core version available.

No it is because of what the core version offers, see my others coment in the others threads, this is not the place.

 

[PG2G]

No it is because of what the core version offers, see my others coment in the others threads, this is not the place.

So I take it you represent these "20%"?

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

Ex-Bethsada guy's opinion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all third party Xbox 360 developers combined times 2.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Which is nothing new and has been known well before the non HD core version became an official SKU.

In short: the fact that there's a "core" version being sold makes no difference to devs. The fact that it's a removable device is what makes the difference...and this has always been the case.

whatever, memory cards are removable devices and games still require them to work, sure you can play them but they are basically useless without a memory card.

if 100% of the users had a HDD the fact it's detachable is next to meaningless, they can still require the HDD knowing full well that 100% of users have one so the market and the userbase is there to market your IMPROVED GAME.

Creating a better game that will sell more copies is worth any small losses you might take from the 0.01% of users who for some reasons do not have their HDD attached. Put a little "HDD required" logo on there, market to 99.9% of users, and make a better game that will sell more copies.

This idea Dev's can't find ways to improve their games if given the option of a HD is ridiculous, many xbox games used the HDD, and many would not have been possible period. KOTOR for example has 20MB game saves and HUGE load times, that's despite using a 500MB cache file on the HDD plus caching. Jade Empire as well, >30 second load times WITH hdd caching.

Many of the xbox exclusives had extremely long load times, and that is when Dev's were making full use of the HDD caching, without it the games would have SURELY been scaled back in some extent. Halo 1 and 2, Jade Empire and KOTOR are all examples of games with extremely long loading times, jade Empire load times literally could not have been any longer or it would have ruined the game.

 

[pc999]

So I take it you represent these "20%"?

I represent a small part of those 20% my own 0,0...01% , but see the pull in varios forum, thay show 20%+ even in the pro-pro-pro XB forums, betwen those how are yet to decide I guess that it is a much larger one.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

whatever, memory cards are removable devices and games still require them to work,

No, they don't.

if 100% of the users had a HDD the fact it's detachable is next to meaningless, they can still require the HDD knowing full well that 100% of users have one so the market and the userbase is there to market your IMPROVED GAME.

No, the fact that its detachable means that I can take my hard drive to my friends house...and my XBox360 can still be used by my wife or kid at home. The game MUST work without detachable media.

I can also buy 2 or 3 Xbox 360s...and share one hard drive between them...

Creating a better game that will sell more copies is worth any small losses you might take from the 0.01% of users who for some reasons do not have their HDD attached. Put a little "HDD required" logo on there, market to 99.9% of users, and make a better game that will sell more copies.

This idea Dev's can't find ways to improve their games if given the option of a HD is ridiculous...

I'm still trying to figure out how much of a difference the XBox-1 hard drive (which is fixed) makes a difference.

I certainly NEVER made a game purchase decision for my x-box based on whether or not "the hard drive is used in some significant way."

...Many of the xbox exclusives had extremely long load times, and that is when Dev's were making full use of the HDD caching...

Or where the hard drive merely made it easier for them to develop the title. (They put less effort into optimizing the optical disc structure.) Yes, this is a benefit, but not huge.

Is the HD of some benefit? Absolutely. I said this before the new SKU was annouced though...the fact that it's detachable makes the X360 hardrive fundamentally different in usability vs. the XBox1 hard drive.

 

[scooby_dooby]

"No, the fact that its detachable means that I can take my hard drive to my friends house...and my XBox360 can still be used by my wife or kid at home. The game MUST work without detachable media."

No it doesn't. Since game makers know for a fact 100% of the customers have a HDD, they can simply put a HDD Required logo on the game. It won't cost them any sales since the entire userbase DOES have a HDD. Even if it cost them a few sales, it would be mad up for the fact they have produced a better quality game(otherwise HDD wouldn't be required)


"I'm still trying to figure out how much of a difference the XBox-1 hard drive (which is fixed) makes a difference.

I certainly NEVER made a game purchase decision for my x-box based on whether or not "the hard drive is used in some significant way."

No you buy it based on games that come out, and how unique, innovate and exciting those games are. KOTOR sold alot of systems, it would not have been the same game without a HDD. Halo 1 and 2, these two games wold more systems than any game ever on the console, and would not have been the same game without a HDD.

So while it may be transparent, the end result is a higher quality of games, especially exclusives. The higher quality of these games is what sells the systems.

I think your wrong thinking that just because it can be physically detahced that develoeprs won't make use of it, it really would not be a big deal to but a HDD Required label on a game as long as the HDD is a standard feature.

With 2 SKU's it won't happen nearly as much because they WILL lose sales if they make a game HDD Required.

 

[pc999]

No, the fact that its detachable means that I can take my hard drive to my friends house...and my XBox360 can still be used by my wife or kid at home. The game MUST work without detachable media.

I can also buy 2 or 3 Xbox 360s...and share one hard drive between them...

That is the worst excuse I can think.How can she play, she will only play the first level over and over.