2007 Console Price Cuts: How much?

What will the retail price be for PS3 20GB at retail outlets in NA at the end of 2007

  • $499

    Votes: 23 29.1%
  • $479

    Votes: 3 3.8%
  • $449

    Votes: 10 12.7%
  • $429

    Votes: 7 8.9%
  • $399

    Votes: 25 31.6%
  • $379

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • $349

    Votes: 4 5.1%
  • $329

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • $299

    Votes: 5 6.3%
  • Below $299

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • Total voters
    79
I wish I had remembered to make the poll public :smile:

Anyhow, I voted for $349.

The 20GB is $499 in the states today, right? So you're saying the PS3 will drop in price by 30% after only a year on the market? That's pretty extreme.

I voted $449, simply because it's reasonable and a decent cost saving - ie, roughly the price of a game.

Cheers
 
You mean WiFi, right ? IIRC, Bluetooth is used for the PS3 controllers... So removing BT would mean going to wired controllers or to a demo booth playing non-interactive demos. Although I suppose I wouldn't notice the difference in MGS or FF for a couple of hours. Just kidding. ;)
I'm talking of an hypothetical $299 SKU. That wouldn't be the one present in demo booths, I'd presume! And WiFi is even less likely to be cut than Bluetooth imo - remember, PSP connectivity...


Uttar
 
I'm talking of an hypothetical $299 SKU. That wouldn't be the one present in demo booths, I'd presume! And WiFi is even less likely to be cut than Bluetooth imo - remember, PSP connectivity...
Uttar

WiFi can be added back later with an external adapter (like on the 360). Also, the $499 PS3 doesn't have WiFi, right ? Removing Bluetooth would require an extra (wired) revision of the Sixaxis (not sure if the Sixaxis can transmit data to the PS3 through the USB charging cable). Not to mention that wiring a motion-sensitive joypad is perhaps not the way to go...

When talking about demo booth units, I was mentioning the non-interactive nature of a PS3 without any controller.
 
I thought the PS3 controllers were BT only, and recharged via a USB lead. If this is the case, then no non-bluetooth controllers exist which would make it difficult to save much cost. Also I thought i read somewhere that the controllers don't come with the USB leads which would mean they'd need to include them with the controllers, further decreasing any saving made from getting rid of bluetooth.
 
Well in the end it will depend on how much consoles sony can sell. If they can sell enough at 499 and 599 why cut the price? But looking at that it seems to be not a big problemen to buy a ps3 in the stores I do think sony will need to cut the price. It will cost them (the ps3 is so expansive for a reason) alot of money but not selling enough consoles will be even worse in the long run. I think sony needs to drop to atleast 399 euro/dollar. And even that might be to high if MS and nintendo also drop their price.
 
ps3 will be cheaper by next christmas. They will have because people are already waiting for a price drop.

It is like the PSP. It is worth the price component wise (more than the DS I think considering the gap tech/price) but everybody is talking about the next revised version with a price drop and a HDD (and so on) even if there is no plan for it. At the end, it kills the sales (among other reasons).
 
The 20GB is $499 in the states today, right? So you're saying the PS3 will drop in price by 30% after only a year on the market? That's pretty extreme.
It's not about percentage, it's about psychological pricing.

You have to sell your product at a price people are eager to buy. Obviously, in the case of the PS3, something went terribly wrong during its production for Sony to sell it, at launch, at such a high price. The blue diodes and the large size of Cell come to mind as an explanation for that.
Anyway, in an attempt to recoup a part of their initial losses, they opted to launch at a high price, knowing, or more exactly thinking, that they'll sell out the first batches at any price. Even this loss minimization approach came at a high price for them and for the brand, most, if not all, the press, financial market and the core demographic opinions about the product were swayed away from it.

For now, I think it's clear that they were not idiotic enough to think that they could run a long time on the marketplace with such prices. Not a single, even the most optimistic one, market researches would have shown good results, for more than six months, for $499 and $599 SKUs on the actual US market. And it seems that someone from the marketing had their way in Japan, since they dropped the price of the 20GB model prior launch. And looking the first report from Japan, it seems that they'd need more than that to emulate the PS2 success there.

To sum up, unless the Playstation brand in the US is really an unstoppable force, Sony would have to correct the price of their entry level model accordingly to what the demand on the market is ready to pay for it.
I think that in the case of PS3 and 360, the psychological price is that of the higher cost SKU. People "feel" the 360 is $400, and that the PS3 is $600. I've mostly seen the lower costs SKUs mentioned on Internet forums.
That is somewhat true for the first buyers, AKA the hardcore and the enthusiasts.
But most of the sales made on the market are done on the cost conscious part of the market.
And the mainstream and the casuals go for what is cheap. You can get interest for higher priced SKUs from these demographics when you bundle games with the hardware, though. But they're pretty much indifferent to features.
On the other hand, people tend to discount the price of accessories/games, even when adding those makes a significant part of the initial purchase. That's why I feel Sony was wrong with the deemphasis of proprietary standards from a business standpoint (from a consumer standpoint, it's another story, of course) : many people won't mind adding a $50 memory card to their $299 purchase, but would definitely think twice about buying a $349 console with 10 times the storage.
That's totally true.
Actually, that choice from SCEI gives more credit to my theory that Ken Kutaragi, during the development period of the PS3, lost touch with the market reality and had way too much decision power in his hands. He really asked the SCEI engineers to come up with a computer... Which is nice from a consumer standpoint, as you noted, but completely stupid from a console business model standpoint.

It's obvious that with the latest management changes made at SCEI and the PR stance from SCEA/SCEE, concerning the "computer" part of the PS3 (They're claiming the PS3, as far as they're concerned, is a game console, primarily), Sony aknoledged that a lot of the decisions made by Kutaragi weren't for the best of the company financials.
I'm talking of an hypothetical $299 SKU. That wouldn't be the one present in demo booths, I'd presume! And WiFi is even less likely to be cut than Bluetooth imo - remember, PSP connectivity...
The 499 version has no Wifi, and you can link your PSP to the machine on USB alright.
BT isn't going anywhere, it's dirt cheap and more importantly its the protocol used for the various game accessories of the machine (Gamepad, headsets, etc...)
 
I don't think it's feasible for the 20GB system to be $349 in just one year. The 20GB sku (from various reports we've seen) loses more money per unit than the 60GB sku. Sony, I don't think can decrease the BOM of the 20GB by $150 in just a year.

I can see Sony dropping $50-100 and by adding incentives like MS has done for the 360's 2nd Xmas season such as packed in games, mail in rebates, gift cards, other "freebees" to increase the "value" of the system.
 
I thought the PS3 controllers were BT only, and recharged via a USB lead. If this is the case, then no non-bluetooth controllers exist which would make it difficult to save much cost. Also I thought i read somewhere that the controllers don't come with the USB leads which would mean they'd need to include them with the controllers, further decreasing any saving made from getting rid of bluetooth.

They can be used while charging just fine. Yes, they come with a USB port (if that's what you mean by lead). What they don't come with is a USB cable. The PS3 itself, however, does come with 1 USB cable that can be used for the controllers, and PS2 memory card adapter (which also does not come with a USB cable).
 
But that doesn't mean they transmit any data over USB while charging. It's much more likely that they use BT while charging just like while unplugged.

That's quite possible, though I wouldn't say it’s more likely (nor less much more likely). They do communicate with the console via USB, this is how the initial connection (or pairing) is performed. Standard PS2 controllers also work when plugged into the USB port via a USB adapter. This would, at a minimum, indicate that the console has USB drivers for the controller. That doesn't mean those drivers are used for the SIXAXIS when plugged in, of course, but its something to keep in mind nonetheless. When I get home, I'll plug a PS3 controller into my 360, initiating a charge, and see if it still works. If it doesn't, than that could mean it’s communicating via USB when charging. It could also mean that it’s just simply confused as to why the USB port it’s plugged into is not the console it was paired with. If it does work, it’s clearly using BT. Although, it could be doing so because it couldn't establish a USB connection with the console. A possible failsafe implemented by SCE in the case where the controller is being charged separately from the console.
 
If they introduce new SKU’s instead of price cuts then they will have demonstrated that they have totally lost touch with reality.

Multiple SKU’s are fundamentally confusing for consumers and the cheapest unit will always, without fail, rightly or wrongly, have a stigma attached to it. It’s the purest form of consumer herd behaviour. Phil Harrison already shared his views, echoing the same line – so I was very surprised they went down the multiple SKU route. It’s a really silly idea, especially when launching a product into the market. Maybe it was marketing who persuaded them to go down that route after balking at the price.

They broke the unwritten laws about psychological pricing boundaries. Anything above $/Euro 500 always brings up the big $/Euro 1,000 number in the mind of the consumer. People will be taken aback by that and it’s showing. The price cut in Japan, although relative to other markets was big, is still a drop in the ocean compared to the competition. The 20GB is effectively irrelevant, the 60GB is ~Y60,000 with tax. That’s more than 2x the price of the Wii and 1.5x the price of the PS2 at launch.

Consumers won’t care about the value proposition. It becomes totally irrelevant to most people because the nominal price is so high in magnitude that it will be perceived as overly expensive. No way to dissuade people from this line of thinking. Same thing is happening with the iPhone. Negative sticker shock is the worst thing to have happen to your product. Explaining the value proposition itself takes time. First impressions rule the roost at retail.

The current strategy reeks of “have your cake and eat it too†viz. Blu-Ray and PS3. They have taken liberties with their brand. HD adoption is happening by simple substitution in the marketplace – people buying new TVs can only really buy HDTV now – the CE majors can push whatever they want, the consumer doesn’t have a choice of SD sets at retail. They’ve been replaced. 720p > 1080p is next.

People are not going out to buy these new TV’s because they have suddenly realised that they want a HD picture. There is certainly a (vocal) minority who have done exactly that, the vast majority buy a new TV to replace their broken one or because they require an extra unit. TV’s are a durable good, with an expected use of 6-10years. That will not change. This is not the 3D graphics accelerator market.

This is why capitalising Blu-Ray as a primary feature of PS3 is the most wildly optimistic thing SCEI have pulled. The market simply will not care. The segment that will is still tiny. Blu-Ray should have been expensed by Group, totally subsidised, below marginal cost. Group can easily afford to do that – it might not be pretty for the managers looking for their P/L related bonuses and options but it was the sensible strategy.
 
They can be used while charging just fine. Yes, they come with a USB port (if that's what you mean by lead). What they don't come with is a USB cable. The PS3 itself, however, does come with 1 USB cable that can be used for the controllers, and PS2 memory card adapter (which also does not come with a USB cable).

Yes I did mean cable (damn colloquialisms :devilish: ). Even if the PS3 comes with one cable, each additional controller then requires another, and they usually add at least a couple of £/$ to the cost if bought separately, so the cost saving to the consumer is barely anything.

Gradthrawn said:
That's quite possible, though I wouldn't say it’s more likely (nor less much more likely). They do communicate with the console via USB, this is how the initial connection (or pairing) is performed. Standard PS2 controllers also work when plugged into the USB port via a USB adapter. This would, at a minimum, indicate that the console has USB drivers for the controller. That doesn't mean those drivers are used for the SIXAXIS when plugged in, of course, but its something to keep in mind nonetheless. When I get home, I'll plug a PS3 controller into my 360, initiating a charge, and see if it still works. If it doesn't, than that could mean it’s communicating via USB when charging. It could also mean that it’s just simply confused as to why the USB port it’s plugged into is not the console it was paired with. If it does work, it’s clearly using BT. Although, it could be doing so because it couldn't establish a USB connection with the console. A possible failsafe implemented by SCE in the case where the controller is being charged separately from the console.

Seeing that word...SIXAXIS...if you were connected via a cable, wouldn't that make playing with the motion sensing rather difficult? the cable could easily come out if you were close to the maximum length of the cable. The more I think about this, the more i consider removal of bluetooth to be a non-starter, and I don't think there is an awful lot else, save the hard drive which the user would need to buy anyway.
 
Yeah, the PS3 comes with a USB cable, and you can use it while playing, but it's 3 feet long. I dunno about you guys, but I sit well over 3 feet away from my game systems when I play. =/

And the SIXAXIS with no USB cable is $50... and the only way to charge it is via USB.

I'm still laughing at every PS3 owner right now. Even beyond the $600 entry fee (or $500 but why would you accept a no wifi unit?), you're forced to spend $100+ on "necessary" accessories (HD cables, 2nd controller, USB cable, PS2 memory card adapter)...
 
I got my 360 premium for $200 so I already got a price drop! :p

Well they were mail in rebates, but I got the first $100 back the other day and am waiting for the other $100 check.
 
This can be done, with the promise that they will get backward comp. later on through software. Sony should have done this from the start probably.

They stated in an interview before that software emulation wasnt finished yet so it wouldnt make it in the early PS3 models.

God knows how much the console will be delayed if they opted to wait for that :LOL: Q4 07 launch ftl? :p
 
Yes I did mean cable (damn colloquialisms :devilish: ). Even if the PS3 comes with one cable, each additional controller then requires another, and they usually add at least a couple of £/$ to the cost if bought separately, so the cost saving to the consumer is barely anything.

I don’t' see a wired controller being offered either. I'm still interested in knowing if it uses BT or the USB cable when charging, however.


Seeing that word...SIXAXIS...if you were connected via a cable, wouldn't that make playing with the motion sensing rather difficult? the cable could easily come out if you were close to the maximum length of the cable.

Not particularly so, at least, not in my experiences. Most of the games that use it, that I've played (Genji, Resistence, MotorStorm, BlastFactor) didn't require motions that would pull wildly on the cable, given a reasonably long cable. The cable included definitely is not for playing and charging, it’s more for charging while laying next to the console. Which brings up something else SCE needs to address. With the 360, when you turn it off with a controller plugged in, the console still provides power to the USB ports until the controller finishes charging. Not so with the PS3. Not a huge inconvenience, but would definitely be nice.

EDIT

Yeah, you're right. If you're close to the maximum length of the cable, it would come out (not so easily, though, you'd have to tug on it). Didn't catch that when I first read it over. Wouldn’t be too good for the port, I’d imagine. I doubt it was made for such abuse.


Yeah, the PS3 comes with a USB cable, and you can use it while playing, but it's 3 feet long. I dunno about you guys, but I sit well over 3 feet away from my game systems when I play. =/

And the SIXAXIS with no USB cable is $50... and the only way to charge it is via USB.

I'm still laughing at every PS3 owner right now. Even beyond the $600 entry fee (or $500 but why would you accept a no wifi unit?), you're forced to spend $100+ on "necessary" accessories (HD cables, 2nd controller, USB cable, PS2 memory card adapter)...

I'm still laughing at you guys bitchin' about $600 dollars. :p
 
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I'm betting no drop for the PS3 this year, They are already losing hundreds of dollars on each unit sold, no way they break even on hardware in less than 12 months. Even if they do break even they will probably want to wait a while to cut the price cause as soon as they break even and cut the price they are then losing money on it again. At that rate Sony may lose money on the PS3 for it's entire lifespan.

Sony is going to keep being arrogant thinking they can sell consoles cause it has the Sony name on it.
 
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Unless sales are strong throughout spring, I expect a Sony pricedrop within the first 6months of $100. I also suspect MS wil match that drop.
 
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