1080p/60 HDMI Clarification

[NANOTEC]

The average movie buyer isn't going to be able to pick out the difference, so it is a moot point. If it turns out to be an issue, BR has the mpeg4 avenue to explore, as well. So again, it is a moot point.

1. The average movie buyer isn't going to be buying these new formats, the videophiles are and you can bet they'll notice the difference on their nice displays.

2. Why brag about BR's capacity advantage then turn around and release movies on crappy MPEG2? What you think SONY's goal is to give you high quality movies?

What's the point of comparing "single layer capabilities"? More relevant is to compare the typical BD disc with the typical HD-DVD disc. Of course, since BD loses in that comparison, BDA prefers the meaningless "single layer capabilities" comparison. It's no surprise that one of BDA's PR flunkies would give public presentations with such bogus comparisons, but that doesn't mean we should buy into it.

Haha my thoughts exactly when I saw that powerpoint one posted as if it means something.

 

[expletive]

Where's the column in the slide that shows "costs associated with all this shit". You cant have this discussion void of price because thats a lot of the reason why the HD-DVD format exists.

 

[randycat99]

1. The average movie buyer isn't going to be buying these new formats, the videophiles are and you can bet they'll notice the difference on their nice displays.

Yeah, the average videophile. They won't notice jack $hit, unless they read it in some magazine/forum, and then suddenly they have something to "see". This is already quite evident in that they can bear to watch pixelized hd off a digital cable/satellite feed on those nice displays w/o a mere complaint of not getting their money's worth for that service. People don't see jack $hit. They buy things that are kewl because somebody says they are kewl.

2. Why brag about BR's capacity advantage...

A capacity advantage, is an advantage. The need to brag about it is self-evident.

...then turn around and release movies on crappy MPEG2? What you think SONY's goal is to give you high quality movies?

It is soley you that imagines mpeg2 and Sony to be this awful, sinister entity. All companies involved are in the business to sell you 1080p movies on a disc. PQ will be up to those who master the product. They will use whatever tools they deem appropriate to deliver the product that they feel is acceptable for your use. That is it- nothing more, nothing less. There is no us vs. them crusade for particular disc media and codecs, other than in your own head.

 

[NANOTEC]

Yeah, the average videophile. They won't notice jack $hit, unless they read it in some magazine/forum, and then suddenly they have something to "see". This is already quite evident in that they can bear to watch pixelized hd off a digital cable/satellite feed on those nice displays w/o a mere complaint of not getting their money's worth for that service. People don't see jack $hit. They buy things that are kewl because somebody says they are kewl.

Videophiles who pay $50 a month for digital cable/satellite don't expect HD DVD quality visuals. They know the limitations of the technology.

A capacity advantage, is an advantage. The need to brag about it is self-evident.

You mean like the guy who brags about driving a Mercedes, but can barely put food on the table?

It is soley you that imagines mpeg2 and Sony to be this awful, sinister entity. All companies involved are in the business to sell you 1080p movies on a disc. PQ will be up to those who master the product. They will use whatever tools they deem appropriate to deliver the product that they feel is acceptable for your use. That is it- nothing more, nothing less. There is no us vs. them crusade for particular disc media and codecs, other than in your own head.

Yet none of the announced HD DVD titles will use MPEG2 while SONY's BR titles will. Why should we give SONY the benefit of the doubt?

It's kinda ironic from reading your post history about HD quality or the lack thereoff yet now you're saying MPEG2 is good enough? Still cannot forget that debate of yours with Democoder. I guess do whatever it takes to suit your argument.

 

[randycat99]

Videophiles who pay $50 a month for digital cable/satellite don't expect HD DVD quality visuals. They know the limitations of the technology.

Apparently, they don't, nor do they have the slightest concept of what hd quality will be on the upcoming disc formats. They got the service to feed their brand new hdtv, and they think it is utterly stellar.

You mean like the guy who brags about driving a Mercedes, but can barely put food on the table?

Wtf are you on about now?

Yet none of the announced HD DVD titles will use MPEG2 while SONY's BR titles will. Why should we give SONY the benefit of the doubt?

Why give BR or HDDVD the benefit of the doubt? You are not fooling anybody.

It's kinda ironic from reading your post history about HD quality or the lack thereoff yet now you're saying MPEG2 is good enough? Still cannot forget that debate of yours with Democoder. I guess do whatever it takes to suit your argument.

To be clear, I was commenting on what other people will see based on things they see today. It all falls in quite consistently with the Democoder debate. Additionally, you would be disingenous to imply the bitrates are comparable between mpeg2 piped over a hd cable or satellite vs. the mpeg2 that will come off an hd-disc. Again, you are alluding to things w/o preserving the context. This does not put you in a good light.

 

[NANOTEC]

Apparently, they don't, nor do they have the slightest concept of what hd quality will be on the upcoming disc formats. They got the service to feed their brand new hdtv, and they think it is utterly stellar.

Actually they don't think it's stellar, but they have no choice if they want to watch stuff on Discovery channel or anything other than movies. Why even subscribe to cable in the first? Why does J6P even subscribe to SD cable? Maybe it's because they want lots of channels to watch?

Why give BR or HDDVD the benefit of the doubt? You are not fooling anybody.

Because HD DVD has already shown that VC-1 at less than 20Mbps gives D5 like visuals? And I can buy a $500 HD DVD player in about 2 weeks that will work with my existing HDTV to experience these awesome visuals?

To be clear, I was commenting on what other people will see based on things they see today. It all falls in quite consistently with the Democoder debate. Additionally, you would be disingenous to imply the bitrates are comparable between mpeg2 piped over a hd cable or satellite vs. the mpeg2 that will come off an hd-disc. Again, you are alluding to things w/o preserving the context. This does not put you in a good light.

Of all people the people who complain about image quality, I just found it funny somebody who claims digital satellite/cable as being "horrific" suddenly claims MPEG2 16Mbps VBR is "good enough" despite evidence that say "better" is available.

 

[Farid]

Keep on Topic

Just in case some of you guys didn't notice, but the topic is: 1080p/60 HDMI Clarification

Not Yet Another BRD Versus HD-DVD Thread.

 

[supervegeta]

Yet none of the announced HD DVD titles will use MPEG2 while SONY's BR titles will. Why should we give SONY the benefit of the doubt?

It's kinda ironic from reading your post history about HD quality or the lack thereoff yet now you're saying MPEG2 is good enough? Still cannot forget that debate of yours with Democoder. I guess do whatever it takes to suit your argument.

Thanks for the imput as i have interest in the subject i did a search and the result is very interesting :

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26716&page=6


These are the parts i find interesting and worth quoting :


Some professionals say that mpeg2 give the best result thanks to a more mature codec advantage :

"AFAIK Matsushita, which has no film library unlike Sony, prefers high bitrate MPEG2 for the time being because of the lower cost in the package contents business.

http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyle/articles/0502/13/news002_4.html

According to this article in Feb 2005, Keisuke Suetsugu, the head of Panasonic Hollywood Laboratory who was formerly at Digital Video Compression Corporation and did encoding for famous DVD titles such as Apollo 13 and Star Wars Episode IV, said H.264 requires high engineering skill and tools development to get better image quality while everyone, even without expert encoding skill, can encode with nice image quality by relatively high 24Mbps MPEG2 available in BD-ROM with a larger space."


Originally Posted by Tom McMahon :

But MPEG-2 is a very good codec and works just fine if you have the ability to run your bitrate up. Most consumers on typical consumer displays in typical consumer viewing environments won't see any different at some point (maybe MPEG-2 at 40 Mbps.).

Basically we can say that with both single layer and dual layer disks mpeg2 have his advantages .

Edit :

Lol @ at the amatorial "democoder" saying stupid things and begin proved wrong by some industrial insiders , ha ha ha this forum is full of idiots.

 

[NANOTEC]

Basically we can say that with both single layer and dual layer disks mpeg2 have his advantages.

No..not visually.

1. You can't have 24Mbps MPEG2 on a 25GB BRD let alone 40Mbps, it won't fit.
2. 16Mbps MPEG2 VBR which does fit is worse than 24Mbps MPEG2 CBR.

Now back to the topic of 1080p/60 HDMI...

 

[supervegeta]

No..not visually.

1. You can't have 24Mbps MPEG2 on a 25GB BRD let alone 40Mbps, it won't fit.

2. 16Mbps MPEG2 VBR which does fit is worse than 24Mbps MPEG2 CBR.

Now back to the topic of 1080p/60 HDMI...

WTF are you talking about, like one said you can have up to 40mbps with a VBR , and with dual layer blu ray titles alredy announced where you can fit a 40mbps CBR , this discussion is useless.

 

[NANOTEC]

WTF are you talking about, like one said you can have up to 40mbps with a VBR , and with dual layer blu ray titles alredy announced where you can fit a 40mbps CBR , this discussion is useless.

Thanks for proving my point...now back on topic...

 

[supervegeta]

Thanks for proving my point...now back on topic...

ha ha ha sure it do, thanks for begin such a dumbass and gave me a good laugh, now back on the topic.

 

[NANOTEC]

ha ha ha sure it do, thanks for begin such a dumbass and gave me a good laugh, now back on the topic.

Why would you want to use a more expensive 50GB BRD and MPEG2 just to try and keep up

 

[supervegeta]

Why would you want to used 50GB BR just to try and keep up?

Muhahaha dual layer disk fly a lot better when i play it with my dog.