artstyledev
Newcomer
Exactly what can these devs which made beautiful games make with wii u. Not every single game needs to push 1 million polygon on a single character to say is a good looking game.
1 Million Tears or Why the Wii U is Weak *SPAWN*
- Thread starter artstyledev
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Exactly what can these devs which made beautiful games make with wii u. Not every single game needs to push 1 million polygon on a single character to say is a good looking game.
No. You just don't get it. The majority here (within the hardware investigation thread) really don't give a schmuck about what games do or don't appear on Wii U. The discussion about Wii U's hardware was from the perspective of the engineer more than the user. It was nothing to do with the games, the experience, the software, and everything to do with the BOM, the choice of components, and the way they are strung together. I'm glad that you are happy with your Wii U purchase. I'm sure you'll enjoy it lots. Please just stop polluting technical discussion with your enthusiasm with your product though.
That has nothing to do with a discussion of hardware power. Nobody in this thread is arguing that games running on weak systems are incapable of pushing nice aesthetics, or that Nintendo sucks at making games.
artstyledev
Newcomer
No. You just don't get it. The majority here (within the hardware investigation thread) really don't give a schmuck about what games do or don't appear on Wii U. The discussion about Wii U's hardware was from the perspective of the engineer more than the user. It was nothing to do with the games, the experience, the software, and everything to do with the BOM, the choice of components, and the way they are strung together. I'm glad that you are happy with your Wii U purchase. I'm sure you'll enjoy it lots. Please just stop polluting technical discussion with your enthusiasm with your product though.
I will leave the technical discussion you got it. But let's be clear only reason I brought up games is because you guys did in that discussion ports out a month into the life cycle to say because they perform like this its weak and shows this is the best it can do. Only reason I ever brought up retro, monolith, and the EAD groups as those are Nintendo best devs that's it. It's cool shifty
artstyledev
Newcomer
Would you not agree that Nintendo might make better software than what's available now? Software we can look at and get a better assessment. That's all I was saying in response to people saying launch games have shown this system isn't a capable system. All i was trying to say. Guess I didn't do a good job of that.
As I've said many times before you simply can't use exclusive titles to compare hardware, what are you comparing it too?
Who's to say Naughty Dog couldn't have built a better looking Uncharted on 360?
Or Halo4 couldn't have been better on PS3?
All you can ever do is look at trends in cross platform titles, if PS3 titles generally run at lower framerates and lower resolutions, you can start to draw conclusions, tat perhaps the GPU or it's path to memory is a limiting factor.
The most interesting part of the WiiU stuff so far it is isn't running cross platform titles at higher resolutions, it isn't running with better AA, enabling these things takes minimal effort, these two items tend to imply that it has either 8 ROPS (the same as 360/PS3), and that's the limiting factor or the bandwidth to EDRAM is limited.
Who's to say Naughty Dog couldn't have built a better looking Uncharted on 360?
Or Halo4 couldn't have been better on PS3?
All you can ever do is look at trends in cross platform titles, if PS3 titles generally run at lower framerates and lower resolutions, you can start to draw conclusions, tat perhaps the GPU or it's path to memory is a limiting factor.
The most interesting part of the WiiU stuff so far it is isn't running cross platform titles at higher resolutions, it isn't running with better AA, enabling these things takes minimal effort, these two items tend to imply that it has either 8 ROPS (the same as 360/PS3), and that's the limiting factor or the bandwidth to EDRAM is limited.
I'm not sure where you're aiming. Sure, Nintendo might make some crazy awesome games on the Wii U. And many games that come out in the future will probably also use the system more efficiently than some of the stuff coming out right now.
But that doesn't mean that the games coming out right now don't offer insight into the limitations of the system; the games bumping into bottlenecks the hardest expose those bottlenecks well. Combined with what looks from a high level to be an architecture not too dissimilar from that of the 360 (most likely plus some feature modernization), it's not unreasonable to start trying to form conclusions about the hardware based on what we see now. And that gives us insights into what the system will ultimately be capable of.
artstyledev
Newcomer
We are able to disagree I'm fine with that. The point I'm trying to make with Nintendo wii u games is.... Most people on this site have said due to the ports they have seen that can cnclude wii u graphically won't achieve anything better than what ps360 has. All I'm saying is that kinda crazy conclusion to come to when we haven't see Nintendo best devs work n this console. I only was responding to what I saw other saying. Man it's cool just forget my post now like its ok. I'm not one that need to make my point known it doesn't seem like we agree on anything so need for the back and forth.
(((interference)))
Veteran
How ridiculous, that Nintendo's 1st party games will look great on the Wii U is no indication of it's merits.
I'm sure if Nintendo's teams made games for the Xbox 360 and PS3 they'd look equally as good.
The Wii U is weak because it's coming out 7 years after the 360 and fails to offer any significant performance advantage over it. If the same thing happened in say the smartphone or tablet markets, even with a new iPhone or Galaxy S3 failing to better even 1 year old competitors it would be pilloried in the tech media.
I'm sure if Nintendo's teams made games for the Xbox 360 and PS3 they'd look equally as good.
The Wii U is weak because it's coming out 7 years after the 360 and fails to offer any significant performance advantage over it. If the same thing happened in say the smartphone or tablet markets, even with a new iPhone or Galaxy S3 failing to better even 1 year old competitors it would be pilloried in the tech media.
I just want to know whose fault it is that there's no 3rd party support for Nintendo's platforms? This is going to be 3 generations in a row with pretty shitty support from 3rd parties for Nintendo. It also looks like this thing isn't going to sell well at all. Why does Iwata still have a job?
Side note: the tags for this thread had me balling out laughing - Nintendo needs a magic bullet and a snake oils' salesmen to get me to believe they have a clue on what they doing.
Side note: the tags for this thread had me balling out laughing - Nintendo needs a magic bullet and a snake oils' salesmen to get me to believe they have a clue on what they doing.
Inuhanyou
Veteran
He still has a job because he knows how to make money for NINTENDO. What that says about third parties and their relation to Nindedo's products obviously is of little concern to them.
It may not be good for third parties money making, but like the Wii, Nintendo made a lot of money themselves on their own games and their own products. That will always be Nintendo's first priority going forward.
It may not be good for third parties money making, but like the Wii, Nintendo made a lot of money themselves on their own games and their own products. That will always be Nintendo's first priority going forward.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
During the initial Wii fad period (first 3-4 years), 3rd party support was pretty strong. Many of the large and small publishers dedicated significant resources trying to make games that Wii users might like. That they failed is no fault of Nintendo.
Once they started to see that it was difficult to get a good consistent return on investment, those efforts were scaled back, but they never abandoned the platform at least.
With the Wii-U they are taking a more cautious approach. There aren't many game publishers that can take on significant risk in an attempt to either launch new IP or try to take advantage of a new platform anymore.
Regards,
SB
FYI MS/Sony and Nintendo mak ~$10 per unit manufactured on 3rd party games with 0 monetary risk, so 3rd party titles do impact Nintendos bottom line.
It is true that Nintendo's "model" has largely centered around profit from hardware sales and 1st party titles, but better 3rd party software sales would improve their bottom line.
It's not that Nintendo doesn't court 3rd parties for support, it's just that 3rd parties are only going to invest in development if they think they can move units and historically for various reasons they haven't believed that.
Ubisoft did very well because it jumped on the Wii bandwagon early, every other publisher jumped on late, the market had shifted, they all got burned and you saw little to no support afterwards. The significant disparity in developing for Wii over PS3/360 meant it was actually "more expensive" to do a Wii version of a title because the port wasn't trivial so you had to be projecting significant sales to make it worth while.
Well, it was partly because Nintendo's software was so very strong and satisfied the Wii owners' limited interests. Once they Wii Sports and friends, they didn't care for much else no matter who made it.
It's also very much Nintendo's fault I believe for not putting in enough hardware to provide a generational advance. Devs already have a strong platform for PS360 level games. With Wuu not offering anything to the traditional core market, it's not going to be adopted for its hardware, meaning a tiny niche that's not worth investing in. That only increases the lack of value to the core gamer and decrease sales, creating a cycle of disinterest. The cost of ports just aren't worth it, probably. Wii U's software presence in the UK top 40 is pitiful - what's the point in porting a game if sales are going to be so small?
Inuhanyou
Veteran
That also goes in hand with Nintendo's own efforts in making sure that consumers know what they are getting and have been getting for the past few decades.
When you ask "What do you buy a Nintendo console for?" The first thing that comes into anyone's mind is "To play Nintendo games", its like mental conditioning at this point.
Its not even just with the Wii, but going back to GC and N64, its something Nintendo has propped up themselves, even having developer exodus's like Square's infamous departure from being an exclusive third party dev because of Nintendo's intransigence.
When you ask "What do you buy a Nintendo console for?" The first thing that comes into anyone's mind is "To play Nintendo games", its like mental conditioning at this point.
Its not even just with the Wii, but going back to GC and N64, its something Nintendo has propped up themselves, even having developer exodus's like Square's infamous departure from being an exclusive third party dev because of Nintendo's intransigence.
The Wii has an attach rate on par with the PS3 and 360.
Well, the number of systems sold is small as well. What you say has been trivially true for every console at launch. How could it be different? It hasn't been available for more than a few weeks after all.
The actual number of units sold isn't interesting in itself, it's just a factor in how companies project sales. The decision to support a platform is based largely on projected sales, though for launch titles there is an element of establishing mindshare, and hopefully impacting sales of titles later in the consoles life.
There are other considerations, as petty as it sounds some engineers don't want to work on some platforms, and generally the better engineers get to work on what they want, it's one of the reasons that publishers make the transition to new platforms early. If they don't they tend to lose talented engineers who want to work with the new tech to companies that do.
FWIW no one wanted to work on Wii.