Thoughts on the expense of PS3

[Tars Tarkus]

I'll play a bit of devil's advocate here and hope that this forum (even during E3 :smile: ) can set a good example.

I was as initially surprised as anyone when Sony announced pricing at their conference. I had thought that if they did announce they would low-ball Microsoft or simply wait for TGS. For the sake of debate let's exclude the merit of timing and focus on price.

From where I currently live, the ball park monetary expense for revisiting the Duomo in person is roughly equivalent to the cost of PS3 (for the sake of argument the $600 version). Perhaps I'm being naive and Kutaragi-san (a respectful honoric and not to be used in debate as evidence of vacuous affirmation) is simply scheming when he insists that his goal for Playstation isn't to be defined by video games but 'Computer Entertainment'.

The question that needs to be addressed as far as this thread is concerned is:
Has Kutaragi-san engineered an environment that artists can use to affect you over the course of years in ways that you would be (in a cumulative sense) as enriched as traveling the first time to a place that doesn't speak your native tongue...so to speak

 

[rabidrabbit]

It must be just me but... I can't make sense at all what you're saying or asking
What's Duono???

 

[Tars Tarkus]

Duomo is personal shorthand for the Cathedral of Santa Maria del Fiore in Florence Italy. Apologies for not being specific. My question basically is...is the price of PS3 legitimized in any way by comparison with intercontinental travel? Will you have memories generated by PS3 twenty years from now that compare to memories generated by seeing Abu Simbal for instance once?



edit: For clarity. Whoops

 

[rabidrabbit]

ummm.. I do have fond memories of my PS2 and games.
I still vividly remember the morning of PS2 launch when I was waiting outside of my local supermarket for it to open, and managing to get one of the four PS2's.
I vividly remember when I got home in anticipation and opened the package and plugged it in.
I vividly remember the first time I put the Gladiator DVD in my PS2 and was amazed at the quality.
I vividly remember how great the Tekken TAG looked and how it was my only game and I played it for a week without being able to save because the memorycards were nowhere to be available.

Those are good memories. I know it's sad, but I am a nerd
Had I wasted that money on a trip somewhere, I'd only had some memories and photos, buit nothing much concrete. The PS2 has been there years after purchase providing continuous entertainment, while a trip would have been a one time affair.
Travelling and memories are overrated anyway, imo.

 

[Tars Tarkus]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing an agenda here. Just pointing out something I hadn't seen much of yet in open discussion.

 

[rabidrabbit]

No I didn't, just gave you my opinion
I'd rather spend the money on a PS3 than on a weeks trip.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think a lot of PS3's functions weren't really pushed. At E3 people are still thinking of it as a console, the same as PS and PS2 were despite KK's dreams. If you can get application software for PS3 it's value will increase as a computing device rather than gaming device. That area is still up in the air. (this is where some people jump in and say 'I already have a PC for that!' and others respond 'ah, but Cell will be faster' and that's followed with 'no-one knows the real-world efficiency of Cell and it might only get 10 GFlops' and 'Cells the greatest processor ever and it'll mince a dual-Athlon in video and image work' and 'well, my great-grand-aunt has trouble using Windows and will benefit from a simpler OS' after which comes 'that's just worthless anecdotal evidence and you can't assume everyone's approach to computers is like you great-grand-aunt's' plus 'Linux, simple? Have you ever used Linux? It's a nightmare, Windows is much more user friendly and with Vista on the horizon is going from strength to strength' after which you can expect 'how much am I going to have to pay to upgrade to Vista? What a stupid thing to say! To keep the PC as effective as PS3, and still not as fast, you have to keep shovelling money at it' and 'With all MS's security flaws I'd rather use a Linux box' and 'Linux just isn't targetted as it's not mainstream. The moment PS3 has Linux it'll be hacked' and 'Cell has invulnerable uber-security. IT can't ever be hacked ever' and 'lol ' and 'what, it's true. I read it on a forum. If you've nothing worthwhile to contribute, stay off the forum.' and 'if you don't know what you're talking about, stay off the forum' and maybe a few more such remarks before the Great Key of the Forum Gods doth smite the thread and enter it into an Eternal State of Lockage. Maybe)

 

[slider]

Er, don't know what to say to Shifty's magnus opus so instead I'll pick up on rabid's post .

Yup, I remember weeks of trying to convince myself and my parents that £300 for a "toy" was worth it. Then I remember my first game (Ridge Racer) and the countless hours of amusement the strangely accented commentary provided: "wow, great cornering".

Most of all I remember the demo disk that had a time limited demo of SSX and how, when landing after a jump, I winced and thought about how much it'd hurt my knees in real life. That was immersive to me!

Oddly, of all the next gen games doing the rounds, when RR7 was announced for the PS3 I became strangely nostalgic.

This is a strangely KK type topic (talking about relative experiences etc.) but I'll just add: can't remember where I went for holiday that year!

 

[Grall]

If you design a good product, it's going to cost money.
Simple as that.


*G*

 

[Gubbi]

I think a lot of PS3's functions weren't really pushed. At E3 people are still thinking of it as a console, the same as PS and PS2 were despite KK's dreams. If you can get application software for PS3 it's value will increase as a computing device rather than gaming device.

If you look at last gen and how superior in functionality a modded Xbox was to an unmodded one you'd ask yourself: Why didn't MS stuff mediacenter and networking functionality into the Xbox.

The answer is: It would have cost MS boatloads of money.

The problem is that consoles are sold at a loss. You need a way to make money from the devices not used for gaming. People buying consoles just to easily access their media library doesn't make any money for the console makers and hence is completely uninteresting.

MS is pushing it this gen because they think they can break even on the hardware in the long rung (something that was never going to be possible last gen)and that it might put pressure on Sony.

Cheers

 

[liolio]

sorry, but this is really too funny http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31641
looool...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If you look at last gen and how superior in functionality a modded Xbox was to an unmodded one you'd ask yourself: Why didn't MS stuff mediacenter and networking functionality into the Xbox.

The answer is: It would have cost MS boatloads of money.

The problem is that consoles are sold at a loss. You need a way to make money from the devices not used for gaming. People buying consoles just to easily access their media library doesn't make any money for the console makers and hence is completely uninteresting.

Though there's the idea of selling these non-gamers lots of content too. There may be some people who would buy a PS3 computer to edit pictures and not much else, but the majority can probably be sold music, games, and general junk online too. Plus BRD. If they've bought an HD disc player before they've bought an HDTV, when they do they'll get the BRD versions of movies, right? Which is more money to Sony. So rather than selling at a loss to make money on games alone, it seems the idea is to sell at a loss and make money on anything and everything you can sell to the punters!

Price wise, I think PS3 is comparable with a Mac Mini, no? And you get a lot more bang for your buck than such a Mac. So as a platform it's probably good value (as if Mac's can be cited for value for money!), it's just in a market that's traditionally expected exceptional value. Tars Tarkus point that the hardware might be worth the money is probably valid. With stiff competition it's not so clear cut. I think Sony were somewhat between a rock and a hard place, wanting something more substantial than a console but having to face console-price expectations.

 

[Sis]

I think they are not comparable; game consoles fall under entertainment, such as movies, music and books. Travelling to another country falls under vacation or cultural enrichment. I don't believe consumers ever make an active choice between the two, except to hold off the purchase of entertainment while saving towards the travel.

(Also, like rabid, I have many gaming memories that I actually share with friends sometimes, unfortunately for them.)

 

[Sis]

Price wise, I think PS3 is comparable with a Mac Mini, no? And you get a lot more bang for your buck than such a Mac.

No, I don't think so. Price-wise, they might compare. But as much as Sony would argue otherwise, the PS3 is not a computer; it's not as flexible as a computer and it's not as useful as a computer (even with a replaceable hard drive and super-computer on a chip).

This has more to do with the different software ecosystems of the two platforms rather than anything intrinsic in the components of the PS3.

 

[Eleazar]

sorry, but this is really too funny http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31641
looool...

Though not based upon truth, it was quite amusing. I definetely think it was intended to be comedic and nothing else. Thanks for the article, it was a good laugh.

 

[nAo]

The Duomo is a cathedral in Florence.?

no, duomo is a generic word: Il Duomo di Firenze (Florence's Duomo) is 'just' a duomo located in Florence, that's it.

 

[Sonic]

The PS3 is not really comparable to a Mac Mini especially considerng the amount of software that comes pre loaded with the Mac. The PS3 is definitely a more powerful system, but it still is expensive for a video game system.

Ken Kuturagi may not consider it primarily a console and want it to be more than that and be an entertainment hub, but that still doesn't mean it is cost friendly for the consumer. The prices is too high for most people who will primarily purchase one to play video games. In my eyes it is nothing more than a video game system that has extended capabilities to do other things, just as a hacked Xbox can do.

Is the experience of owning one comparable to going on a trip that can open one's eyes and have great memories? Sure. But the PS3 will not be that first experience like that with a system for many people. I had that experience with the Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, Playstation, and SNES, and I am sure to have that with the Nintendo Wii as well.

The price is the one thing that concerns me the most...because it allows sony to be highly vulnerable despite what others here and elsewhere want to believe. Consumers do not like a high price for what they consider a video game system. If Sony wants consumers to envision a different concept of the PS3, then maybe a name change would be in their interests.

As for image and video editing, maybe if there was a RAM upgrae somewhere in the system it would be feasible, but until then it really doesn't make sense to do it on a machine with so much power but oo many memory restraints.

 

[slider]

Reading Sonic's post made me think: "solution to a question nobody asked" which, frankly, has been done before - Larry Ellison & Oracle taking on the desktop Windows PC with Java and Virtual Machine's didn't even really get to the first round.

I'm not really worried by the price, I'll get one whatever the cost - that's probably because I've done a Euro to £'s exchange rate where it seems reasonable for what you're getting (principally the BRD and HDD).

A lot depends on how long the intial rush for the machine lasts. Once that passes I'm not sure the average punter will be swayed by thoughts of "ooh, I can edit pics on this thing too... ok, it's a little bit more that that cheapy £299 Dell..." - it'll take a huge marketing push to keep it selling at that price and as more than a games machine. It all makes me go... hmm.

 

[inefficient]

I'm sure Sony can drop the price pretty far if they have to. They just know they don't, and they are going to milk the hardcore and early adopters for their coin while the supply is still limited.

Once the retail sales start slowing down I predict they will move aggressively on the price.

It's kind of sad that the hardest core fans have to pay the highest price. But I guess it is a burden the faithfull are more than willing to carry.

 

[rounin]

I still think its crazy value for the money. I'm definitely getting the "premium" PS3.