Value of consoles versus PC, post PS5Pro edition *spawn

[Nesh]

If this is any indication, all the benefits of owning a console or for the platform holder like Sony to have a console are gradually shrinking.

I don't know what future is there for consoles. All the cost advantages are no longer there. Manufacturing is getting more expensive and is almost fully aligned with PC costs since they are essentially dependent on the same hardware now.

Hardware wise, consoles are the same as a mid range PC.

Long gone are the days when a console represented a technological leap in their own right

Long gone are the days that a platform holder like Sony could innovate and own fully the process to gradually make it more efficient.

Long gone are the days that consoles represented an affordable option for the average Joe to game on.

We are paying extra both for increased costs of production and for the profit margins of AMD who now produces a bulkier portion of the hardware. During the PS1 and PS2 times, these hardware partner margins were significantly much smaller. The break even point is larger now and Sony passes the additional charges to the consumer

It's a shame how things evolved.

 

[Boss]

Personally, I'm not so sure why people are referencing pc here. Those who want a pc will get one but the PS5 pro won't be why. I have a very powerful pc and barely use it to play games. After working all day on pc, the last thing I want is hunch over on my pc playing games. Before the usual, you can connect it to a tv folks come shouting, I know and it still sucks. Gaming on pc is a very friction filled experience which is cool when you have ample time and patience. It's horrible when you don't. Other than early access to new features, I cannot see many good reasons to game on pc. For every cyberpunk that comes out and pushes the hardware, there's an uncountable amount of garbage. The best gaming pc I've ever used is not the one with my RTX 4080 super and 7800x3d, it's the steam deck and by a large margin.

 

[Malo]

All the cost advantages are no longer there

Hardware wise, consoles are the same as a mid range PC.

How so? A mid-range GPU is now $700+

 

[Cappuccino]

Personally, I'm not so sure why people are referencing pc here. Those who want a pc will get one but the PS5 pro won't be why. I have a very powerful pc and barely use it to play games. After working all day on pc, the last thing I want is hunch over on my pc playing games. Before the usual, you can connect it to a tv folks come shouting, I know and it still sucks. Gaming on pc is a very friction filled experience which is cool when you have ample time and patience. It's horrible when you don't. Other than early access to new features, I cannot see many good reasons to game on pc. For every cyberpunk that comes out and pushes the hardware, there's an uncountable amount of garbage. The best gaming pc I've ever used is not the one with my RTX 4080 super and 7800x3d, it's the steam deck and by a large margin.

I don’t really get this view. I get less friction when using my PC on my TV/couch setup. What is this friction you are talking about?

 

[XboxKING]

I don’t really get this view. I get less friction when using my PC on my TV/couch setup. What is this friction you are talking about?

Even when you try to watch a movie through your pc and are sitting on the couch with the mouse, windows is going to say you need to change your windows password and you need to essentially have the keyboard next to you always in case you need to manage windows. Or it is going to say something about updating windows and you will need to wait with no way of knowing how long it is going to take.

The Xbox or PlayStation will also have mandatory updates but it will never take more than a minute and it is not going to bother you about some other stuff like while in a game or movie the windows task bar appears and you cannot get it to disappear while you have an OLED.

Or you will have the mouse cursor inside the screen when trying to watch a movie. So you minimize the screen and put it back to fullscreen not knowing it is even going to work.
All in all this is horrible and people unbothered by this should not be giving anybody advice on what constitutes a good experience IMO

 

[Cappuccino]

Even when you try to watch a movie through your pc and are sitting on the couch with the mouse, windows is going to say you need to change your windows password and you need to essentially have the keyboard next to you always in case you need to manage windows. Or it is going to say something about updating windows and you will need to wait with no way of knowing how long it is going to take.

The Xbox or PlayStation will also have mandatory updates but it will never take more than a minute and it is not going to bother you about some other stuff like while in a game or movie the windows task bar appears and you cannot get it to disappear while you have an OLED.

Or you will have the mouse cursor inside the screen when trying to watch a movie. So you minimize the screen and put it back to fullscreen not knowing it is even going to work.
All in all this is horrible and people unbothered by this should not be giving anybody advice on what constitutes a good experience IMO

If 30 second mandatory updates are the ‘friction’ then I think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. Get a wireless keyboard and it’s essentially equivalent to a console for anyone that knows how to work a computer.

I’d never watch movies on my PC but we aren’t really talking about that. I was talking about gaming. Almost none of this is an issue while gaming.

 

[Cappuccino]

That's not even theoretically possible, forget about being realistically possible. From the friction of multiple stores, numerous game issues, windows related issues, driver related issues, etc. On console, from a cold boot, you are 2 controller button presses away from booting your game. From rest mode, it's a single button press. Just this week, I've had to troubleshoot memory with memtest86, replace a less than 1 year old 1000watt psu, troubleshoot random mouse lags, random keyboard lags, etc. PC gaming when everything works is friction filled, talk less of when things don't work.

Like i said, the only steam deck presents an acceptable experience especially because you can download pre-compiled shaders.

What multiple stores?? Just use steam??

Replacing parts of your PC isn’t friction, any more than replacing a console when it breaks isn’t friction. This is just how electronics work.

So is your issue shader compilation?

 

[pjbliverpool]

How so? A mid-range GPU is now $700+

Not really. The 7700XT (roughly equivalent to the Pro in raster) is $499. We can expect it's RDNA4 equivalent to be something similar but bringing along the RT improvements and perhaps AI upscaling capability as well.

A 4070 Super is $599 and could comfortably exceed the pro on all fronts. And again, we're on the verge of the next generation of GPU launches within one quarter or so of the Pro launch, so the mid range position should become even more favourable in very short order.

That's not even theoretically possible, forget about being realistically possible. From the friction of multiple stores, numerous game issues, windows related issues, driver related issues, etc. On console, from a cold boot, you are 2 controller button presses away from booting your game. From rest mode, it's a single button press.

I must have said this a thousand times but there need be no 'multiple store friction' involved with PC gaming. Something like Playnite will launch all your separate store games in such a way that you never need to know what the originating store is. It will also launch in full screen at PC start up if set to do so, so that you are also one controller click away from game launch from waking from sleep. Incidentally it will also do the same for your emulated games.
I'll grant it's not as smooth an experience as the consoles because the store related features like friend lists and achievements aren't always integrated. But if you just care about the gaming it's a very console like experience. Well, perhaps the fact that Ratchet and Clank sits next to Starfield which sits next to Super Mario Odyssey in my games selection screen might give it away, but hey...

And arguments around Windows and driver updates come straight out of the 2000's. There is no reason for these things not to be invisible on PC these days outside of the times that the user chooses to update things with a couple of Mouse clicks once a month or so.

To be clear I'm not saying that a PC is a one for one stand in for the Pro here. It will be maybe 50% more expensive if purchased outright (although potentially offering a similar performance delta), and some reasonable knowledge of how to operate a PC is necessary in order to set it up to operate in a console manner vs the console that is much simpler in that regard. So from an ease of use perspective the console still wins. But we don't need to wildly exaggerate the complexities of PC gaming to make that point.

Just this week, I've had to troubleshoot memory with memtest86, replace a less than 1 year old 1000watt psu, troubleshoot random mouse lags, random keyboard lags, etc.

Just because you have seemingly been remarkably unlucky with PC hardware and software issues (I've been PC gaming for around 30 years, and have only had to replace 1 PSU in that time, and have never encountered the input lags you mention), does not mean that is a 'normal' PC experience. Do the people that suffered the RROD issue on the 360 (or any console hardware failure for that matter which absolutely do happen) get to claim that consoles are riddled with hardware failures and that makes up part of the normal console experience?

 

[XboxKING]

Pretending windows has zero issues or that fullscreen isn’t often broken and you literally have hundreds of forum posts for every single game over the internet trying to fix it. And also pretending windows updates take 30 seconds.

What is next? Pretending PC doesn’t get bad ports or doesn’t experience any compilation stutter?

 

[pjbliverpool]

And also pretending windows updates take 30 seconds.

Out of interest what exactly is it you find so particularly difficult about selecting the "apply updates and shutdown" option in the Windows power menu vs the "shutdown" option?

Sure the process of shutting down may take a minute or so more than it usually would.... once a month or so.... at a time that you personally select when your usage of the machine is complete...
so do you dislike the extra electricity that your monitor uses during that minute of additional up time or something?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well, considering 4 years of tech advance and tending towards price the hardware gets you very little improvement, console gaming just feels dead to me as a concept. The only way to get better now is to spend more and go larger. Keep PS5 for the next 20 years and maybe there'll be enough progress to get a real generational advance for the low low price of $3000?

So, seems there's way more value to be had in spending on PC hardware. But I don't like Windows (it's not as bad as it was but it does have issues consoles don't) and MS continue to offend at so many corners ('we are removing your free email client and pushing you towards one that uses adverts disguised as legit emails which are going to confuse the *%^£$% out of all the old folk out there'). Plus I don't need AI AI AI everything. It'd be nice if the Mac was an option, and a decent Steam box/Linux that didn't need a degree in Nerd to be able to operate.

Right this second, the future of gaming is feeling pretty pants. Kind of, get a PC and just plod on. Those of us who lived through gaming from its infancy to now are the lucky ones. We experienced a thrill and awe probably never to be repeated.

 

[Davros]

We experienced a thrill and awe probably never to be repeated.

This!!!!

 

[Cyan]

Something like Playnite will launch all your separate store games in such a way that you never need to know what the originating store is.

thanks for mentioning Playnite, I didn't know about it and I am installing it now.

Also I think it's worth mentioning that while Windows has become more amicable towards gaming, consoles have also adopted typical PC hardware. I have a cheap gaming mouse that is meant to work with PS5, Xbox, PS5, and of course the PC.

Well, considering 4 years of tech advance and tending towards price the hardware gets you very little improvement, console gaming just feels dead to me as a concept. The only way to get better now is to spend more and go larger. Keep PS5 for the next 20 years and maybe there'll be enough progress to get a real generational advance for the low low price of $3000?

So, seems there's way more value to be had in spending on PC hardware. But I don't like Windows (it's not as bad as it was but it does have issues consoles don't) and MS continue to offend at so many corners ('we are removing your free email client and pushing you towards one that uses adverts disguised as legit emails which are going to confuse the *%^£$% out of all the old folk out there'). Plus I don't need AI AI AI everything. It'd be nice if the Mac was an option, and a decent Steam box/Linux that didn't need a degree in Nerd to be able to operate.

Right this second, the future of gaming is feeling pretty pants. Kind of, get a PC and just plod on. Those of us who lived through gaming from its infancy to now are the lucky ones. We experienced a thrill and awe probably never to be repeated.

Windows could make gaming much easier. They've improved a lot but much like the gamification of phone -and other- interfaces, the "consolerization" of Windows should be a reality by now. Most gamers use Windows and that's a lot of money for them. In fact they are taking steps towards that goal, make Windows a breeze for gaming. The new compact mode is a step in the right direction. I just hope that the rumours regarding a hybrid device are true.

 

[pjbliverpool]

thanks for mentioning Playnite, I didn't know about it and I am installing it now.

I love it! I originally used Steam, manually adding non-Steam games into the library but there was quite a lot that wouldn't work with it. I then moved to GoG which was pretty good, but still had some issues. Playnite on the other hand is flawless in my experience. Steam, Ubisoft Connect, Epic, GoG, Rockstar, and as many emulators as you want are all integrated into a single, clean, and highly customizable game library interface which can either be operated in desktop mode with a Mouse or in full screen mode with a control pad. Other storefronts are bypassed when opening their games so although they need to be open in the background they will never be visible. You can also set Playnite to close down those game stores when the game is finished if you wish - although I leave them open in the background to shorten launch times.

 

[XboxKING]

Some are claiming that PC offers early access gaming, but the literally same experience can be had by buying a Ubisoft or EA title around its launch. Or a Bethesda title. You get the charm of early access bugs without needing to deal with shader compilation; which also applies to non-early access titles

 

[Nisaaru]

What multiple stores?? Just use steam??

Replacing parts of your PC isn’t friction, any more than replacing a console when it breaks isn’t friction. This is just how electronics work.

So is your issue shader compilation?

I have no clue how Steam works these days on the PC but on the Mac(Diablo3) every few years I start it it wants my password *again*. Then I have to find my old Half Life box where I hid the paper with the pw or so The app also seems to have no clue how to work without busy looping if I have to go by the spinning noise. At least that was the norm when I started it the last time

There are people, like me, which just have no interest to deal with Winblows and stuff which seem "normal" for people using them all the time as their hobby. I am also glad I don't use my iPad for gaming because each excruciating slow OS update wants my pw and pin again and again and again....

 

[Boss]

What multiple stores?? Just use steam??

Replacing parts of your PC isn’t friction, any more than replacing a console when it breaks isn’t friction. This is just how electronics work.

So is your issue shader compilation?

Do you even use steam? I do and using steam doesn't stop you from having to interact with other stores/launchers.

Like I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say replacing parts is not any more friction that replacing a whole device? Surely you cant be that oblivious to see how that cannot possibly be true? I'm not even going to delve into why that statement is false.

Shader compilation is one of many issues with pc gaming. The issues I've mentioned before are also included. At it's best, pc gaming is cumbersome, at it's worst, its uncouth. I'm willing to put up with it for games that display a far superior technical brilliance that can't be had on console. Cyberpunk is a good example of that type of game... For other games, I'll save myself the hassle and play on console or steam deck. Unfortunately, those type of games are few and far between.

 

[Malo]

every few years I start it it wants my password *again*.

Are you really complaining about entering a password every few years??

 

[Boss]

Just because you have seemingly been remarkably unlucky with PC hardware and software issues (I've been PC gaming for around 30 years, and have only had to replace 1 PSU in that time, and have never encountered the input lags you mention), does not mean that is a 'normal' PC experience. Do the people that suffered the RROD issue on the 360 (or any console hardware failure for that matter which absolutely do happen) get to claim that consoles are riddled with hardware failures and that makes up part of the normal console experience?

In the last 4 years, I've had to swap ram twice, PSU twice(both Corsair), GPU once all due to defects. All brand new parts. In the xbox 360 era, a normal xbox 360 experience was RROD. Over 50% of the early consoles failed. That was normal for that device.

I must have said this a thousand times but there need be no 'multiple store friction' involved with PC gaming. Something like Playnite will launch all your separate store games in such a way that you never need to know what the originating store is. It will also launch in full screen at PC start up if set to do so, so that you are also one controller click away from game launch from waking from sleep. Incidentally it will also do the same for your emulated games.
I'll grant it's not as smooth an experience as the consoles because the store related features like friend lists and achievements aren't always integrated. But if you just care about the gaming it's a very console like experience. Well, perhaps the fact that Ratchet and Clank sits next to Starfield which sits next to Super Mario Odyssey in my games selection screen might give it away, but hey...

And arguments around Windows and driver updates come straight out of the 2000's. There is no reason for these things not to be invisible on PC these days outside of the times that the user chooses to update things with a couple of Mouse clicks once a month or so.

To be clear I'm not saying that a PC is a one for one stand in for the Pro here. It will be maybe 50% more expensive if purchased outright (although potentially offering a similar performance delta), and some reasonable knowledge of how to operate a PC is necessary in order to set it up to operate in a console manner vs the console that is much simpler in that regard. So from an ease of use perspective the console still wins. But we don't need to wildly exaggerate the complexities of PC gaming to make that point.

Finally, please don't go around saying there's no multiple store friction. I experience it every single day. Playnite does not resolve multiple store friction, it only helps to hide it. While it does an admirable job, it's still inferior to console in every way, shape and form. The only OS in the pc space right now that is nearly seamless is steamOS. For gaming, it's far superior to windows. Arguments around windows updates and drivers come straight out of 2024. Nvidia driver 551.52 - .76 caused a whole host of performance and instability problems. Amd adrenaline drivers 24.3.1 caused instability and crashing. KB5035853 from microsoft caused bsods along with other updates. Like I said in another thread, pc gaming at it's best is cumbersome and at it's worst, is uncouth.

 

[Lurkmass]

There's hardly any value proposition left for consoles IF there are no exclusive software to had AND they keep repackaging PC hardware. Those two things are going to be the downfall of console gaming and gaming itself eventually in the long run ...