Sony PlayStation 5 Pro
- Thread starter chris1515
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Subtlesnake
Regular
The majority of games are still primarily GPU limited though, especially Sony's 1st party output. And it's not as if on PC you're going to escape all drops due to the CPU. The resistance to the Pro is puzzling to me, when you're effectively paying as much for a mid range graphics card on the PC, and in some ways getting a worse experience due to stutter struggle.
Or just 44% more powerfull
davis.anthony
Veteran
A lot of console games aren't exactly smooth either, either with frame rate drops or stutters of their own.
It's not only PC that is struggling with final quality, but the right PC has at least the horse power to push past certain issues.
I'm not seeing a lot of resistance to the Pro tbh. There's a different between realistic expectation setting, and being negative towards something.
On the expectations side... I don't think it's realistic to expect you will be able to pick up a Pro for the same price as an equivalent PC GPU when it launches. The Pro is expected to launch at what, $550 - $600? And with raster performance equivalent to an RX7700XT, but more RT performance.
Well the RRP for an RX 7800XT today is only £499 and the Pro will be going up against the RX 8800XT which will be either faster, cheaper, or both (and add full RDNA4 RT capabilities to at least match or improve on the RT improvements in the Pro relative to the product tier). So the occasional shader compilation stutter aside (and frankly I feel we are past the worst of that issue now anyway) you're going to be getting a better experience across the board at a lower price with a PC GPU upgrade - and without having to rely on "Pro patches" to see those gains.
There's certainly an argument for console only gamers to move to the Pro, or for people completely new to the gaming market to choose a Pro over a brand new PC build. But I'm seeing little incentive for existing PC gamers with a half decent CPU to move away from PC gaming to the Pro.
I don't think consoles have ever offered incentive for existing PC gamers to move to console. It's never been the case, outside of PS1/PS2 era, that people who maintain a capable PC would find better value in a console. It's more a case of the Pro offering reason for console owners to upgrade. It's cheaper getting a PS5Pro than a GPU and that's even if you have a PC that can take a GPU upgrade. So, if a $500 GPU is good enough to upgrade, a console for the same price should be good enough value also.
I agree with your points aside from the cheaper getting a PS5Pro than a GPU part (assuming you're talking about equivalent performance). $500 should get you something like an 8800XT in the same timeframe as the Pro launch which should be a reasonable amount faster (and likely cheaper) than the Pro.
As a side note, to put some numbers to the point of how many existing PC's could take such a GPU upgrade, it's only a rough indicator but if we look at the Steam Hardware survey we can see that around 40% of PC's there have 8 or more CPU cores (a fair indicator of similar or better performance to the Pro CPU) with a further 37% having 6 cores (of which a good chuck will also be equivalent to, or faster than the Pro CPU). So for ease if we say 50% of Steams 132m monthly active users that makes around 66m PC's that could potentially be upgraded to >Pro performance with a GPU only upgrade for likely less than the cost of the Pro (or in some cases roughly the same if a new PSU is also needed).
Subtlesnake
Regular
I have seen plenty of people online question the need for the Pro's existence. And I remember Alex saying that he doesn't feel the Pro is a compelling upgrade, due to the absence of a faster CPU. I listened again to what Alex said, and he is at least consistent, since he thinks that on the PC, a 4070 say, should be paired with a faster CPU.
However, in the context of an upgrade, moving to a 4070 can unlock higher resolutions and much better looking visuals overall through ray tracing. I have a 5800X with a 3080, so any title that pushes the CPU hard on the consoles will not run at a locked 60 on my PC. But it's not as if I would be fine giving up half my GPU performance, and having to significantly dial down RT settings and move to lower DLSS presets that result in worse image quality. So personally I find DF's perspective on the Pro to be a bit surprising given their focus on RT and image quality. For the average user I think moving from a 2080 to a 4070 would be a big deal, even if they don't have a high-end CPU.
I wasn't trying to make a direct comparison between the PC and consoles in terms of what you get for your money. I was talking about the worth of the Pro as an upgrade in comparison to parts like the 4070 or 7700 XT/7800 XT, which plenty of users will not have paired with cutting edge CPUs.
We don't even know what the PS5 Pro is going to cost. It's just general discussion about general value to upgrade a console.
Why? This is a thread about PS5 Pro. What has the number of upgradeable PCs got to do with it?
Yes indeed. At 549$-599$ it should have a very good value. And we don't really know how it will perform. Leakers have guesses, yes, but the proof will be in the pudding.
Some people have made the same mistake by underestimating PS5 by forgetting about the efficiency of the tools in some games, specifically the exclusives.
Zen 2 is a relatively low IPC core by modern standards, I would say. Add to that the low frequency, reduced caches, and higher latencies of graphics DRAM, and I would expect it to be at least 2 to 3 times slower in SPEC2K6 compared to modern PC CPUs
Consoles aren't underperforming versus what an eight core Zen 2 processor with just 8MB of L3 and 3.5Ghz clockspeed would do on a PC, though. This isn't some infinitely powerful CPU by any means(should remember Skylake-based Intel CPU's still outperformed Zen 2 in games), and there's nothing about it that suggests that devs couldn't push games to a point where 60fps isn't possible on them. I'd have been shocked if this didn't happen.
And frankly, as I've said plenty of times, I'm actually an advocate of seeing more devs pushing things and having a 30fps target. I want to see developers be more ambitious and not be limited by some bizarre notion that every game needs to be 60fps.
I was responding to your comment of: "It's cheaper getting a PS5Pro than a GPU and that's even if you have a PC that can take a GPU upgrade." The context of the point in relation to the Pro was whether it would be worth moving from an existing PC to a Pro, with the data I provided being to demonstrate that for roughly 50% of existing PC gamers according to the SHS, it wouldn't be worth it from a price/performance perspective.
Sony may consider the existing PC gaming audience as a prospective market for the Pro so it's at least vaguely relevant how large that market is and whether or not that move would be an appealing one, at least from a cost/performance perspective.
That doesn't tell you how many PS5 owners own a PC capable of being upgraded though, and that wasn't even the point. The question is whether the PS5Pro represents value to PS5 upgraders, not PC upgraders.
Not sure why. PS4Pro was reportedly developed to stop PS4 owners migrating to PC and not to woo PC gamers to console. It's unlikely anyone who games on PC would want to swap to console given the economics. Even if the Pro is cheaper in hardware costs, the online tax is substantial.
Based on?
raytracingfan
Newcomer
Sony has allegedly secured GTA VI marketing rights, and if so there will be a marketing blitz for the PS5 Pro advertising it as the best way to play GTA VI. They may be betting on the "Rockstar effect" driving not just PS5 owners, but also PS4 owners and new customers to grab a PS5 Pro.
Has someone been enjoying a drink tonight?
People shouldn't forget the PS4 pro launched at the existing PS4 price point and still only accounted for, at best, 1 out of every 5 consoles sold. I think it's likely that number was actually significantly less by the end of its lifecycle. This will be launching at a higher price point than the existing PS5.
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