davis.anthony
Veteran
Corrected based on the above translation from Tkumpathenurpahl.
PS5 Pro *spawn
- Thread starter chris1515
- Start date
Corrected based on the above translation from Tkumpathenurpahl.
Charlietus
Newcomer
I wonder what process node they are using for the pro. 6 nm at 250w is probably cheaper than using 4nm at this timeframe.
That makes me think about ps6, it's surely not going to use a bleeding edge node, maybe not even using tsmc. If I were them I would go to Samsung or even Intel to get something good at lower prices.
That makes me think about ps6, it's surely not going to use a bleeding edge node, maybe not even using tsmc. If I were them I would go to Samsung or even Intel to get something good at lower prices.
davis.anthony
Veteran
I'm trying to figure out where they're getting 2-3x RT performance (And the leak stated up to 4x in some situations) over base PS5 from.
The 2x is pretty easy as that will just come from the additional RT units plus the extra clock speed.
36 RT units vs 60 RT units and variable 2.23Ghz vs 2.45Ghz (based on INT8 TOPS number)
Looking at this chart from Guru3D's review of the 7700XT with 3D Mark and comparing to the 6650XT (which is the closest desktop GPU to base PS5 in terms of specs and Tflops) the 7700XT is ~1.86x faster
The 2/3x faster comment, if using the above chart as a reference (and the 6650XT representing base PS5) would mean PS5 Pro would be between the 6900XT and 4070ti.
And the comment about it sometimes being 4x faster than PS5 at RT would put it above the RTX 4080 which I just don't see.
The jump in RT performance doesn't reflect and corollate with the jump in raster performance - 1.5x in raster but 2/3x in RT??? Doesn't make much sense.
I seriously doubt they've changed anything at the architectural level due to time and cost.
Could PS5 Pro have a fixed clock rate? And the quoted 2/3x RT performance increase, depends on what clock rate PS5 drops down too? The lower the GPU clock rate on base PS5 the closer to the 3x improvement PS5 Pro gets too?
The 4070 is roughly a match for it in terms of raster, but looking at Techpowerups review of the 7700XT the 4070 is ~30% faster in RT workloads
If you also look at the ray tracing chart in the Techpowerup review of the 7700XT, it is ~2x faster than the 6600XT at 1440p, but closer to 3x at 4k.
So is it simply of a case of the higher the resolution your game, the closer PS5 Pro gets to being 3x faster at RT?
There is a chance that PS5 Pro could be able to do CP2077 with path tracing at 1080p30fps with their new ML upscaling to 4k.
So yea, the machine is pretty boring specs wise, only the RT claims are a bit of a mystery about how they're getting these increase figures.
The 2x is pretty easy as that will just come from the additional RT units plus the extra clock speed.
36 RT units vs 60 RT units and variable 2.23Ghz vs 2.45Ghz (based on INT8 TOPS number)
Looking at this chart from Guru3D's review of the 7700XT with 3D Mark and comparing to the 6650XT (which is the closest desktop GPU to base PS5 in terms of specs and Tflops) the 7700XT is ~1.86x faster
The 2/3x faster comment, if using the above chart as a reference (and the 6650XT representing base PS5) would mean PS5 Pro would be between the 6900XT and 4070ti.
And the comment about it sometimes being 4x faster than PS5 at RT would put it above the RTX 4080 which I just don't see.
The jump in RT performance doesn't reflect and corollate with the jump in raster performance - 1.5x in raster but 2/3x in RT??? Doesn't make much sense.
I seriously doubt they've changed anything at the architectural level due to time and cost.
Could PS5 Pro have a fixed clock rate? And the quoted 2/3x RT performance increase, depends on what clock rate PS5 drops down too? The lower the GPU clock rate on base PS5 the closer to the 3x improvement PS5 Pro gets too?
The 4070 is roughly a match for it in terms of raster, but looking at Techpowerups review of the 7700XT the 4070 is ~30% faster in RT workloads
If you also look at the ray tracing chart in the Techpowerup review of the 7700XT, it is ~2x faster than the 6600XT at 1440p, but closer to 3x at 4k.
So is it simply of a case of the higher the resolution your game, the closer PS5 Pro gets to being 3x faster at RT?
There is a chance that PS5 Pro could be able to do CP2077 with path tracing at 1080p30fps with their new ML upscaling to 4k.
So yea, the machine is pretty boring specs wise, only the RT claims are a bit of a mystery about how they're getting these increase figures.
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Rather than as a "frees up" situation, I postulate Sony is fudging the RT performance metrics by including their ML upscaling tech as part of their stated end-result. Think about how NVIDIA claims mega-performance increases of the 4xxx series cards while adding DLSS-FG into their benchmark numbers. "Oh see a 4080 is 3.7x faster than a 3080! while using frame generation "
Probably related to their 2x-4x RT claim (which I still think is versus the weak PS5 RT).
This machine is designed to run the same exact PS5 games with possibly more RT effects and proper AI upscaling. But at the same framerate.
This machine is designed to run the same exact PS5 games with possibly more RT effects and proper AI upscaling. But at the same framerate.
As per your comment, some simple napkin math consideration:
if we are doing say 60fps, and Raster is taking 10ms for example and RT is 6.6ms. Then a 4x speed up across the whole RT pipeline would be 1.5ms. And your new frame time is 11.5ms. Which is approximately 80fps.
If you speed up faster by 45% let’s say. Now you are at 7ms for raster with a 1.5ms
Or a combined frame time of 9ms approximately 105fps from 60fps.
Not sure I can see the leap being that large. But worth doing some simple boundary checks if these numbers are legit.
Charlietus
Newcomer
From what I can see in the updated article from insider gaming, this is a 549€ console, with the base going down by 50-70€. The only expenses were getting a bigger chip and developing the new upscaler. The additional ddr4 for the os is going to get upgraded by half a gigabyte and that's all developers are getting.
At least I can sell my PS5 and get the pro for like 150€.
At least I can sell my PS5 and get the pro for like 150€.
In his updated specs blurb Tom said that PS5 Pro also has improved memory efficiency. I wonder if they've lowered the footprint of the OS, or if they're somehow leaning harder on the I/O to further improve their memory management?
Charlietus
Newcomer
Sounded more like higher speed to me instead of better memory management
This now looks like a $100 / 100€ more expensive console than PS5, like PS4 Pro was. I'd guess they intended to release that last year (using 6nm) but had to delay for this year. A 10% CPU overclock (at the cost of 1% GPU) would indicate this is just from 7nm to 6nm improvements. This thing is going to consume a lot! Probably in the +250W range.
Possibly yea.. but it sounded like this was something "on top" of the bandwidth gain.
This is what he wrote for reference:
The fact that it's using the same CPU with an overclock will limit this thing significantly. Better ray tracing performance seems to be one of the key selling points on this console, but ray tracing can be pretty heavy on the CPU.
A Zen2 CPU in 2024 is a very bizarre choice.
www.theverge.com
A Zen2 CPU in 2024 is a very bizarre choice.
More rumored specs for the PS5 Pro.
Tom Henderson at Insider Gaming reported GPU specifications and performance targets for a “PlayStation 5 Pro” on Friday, and now he says that just like the recently revised PS5, the Pro will also have a detachable disc drive. Other new details include rumors of faster memory running at 576 GB/s...
www.theverge.com
davis.anthony
Veteran
Infinity cache maybe? RDNA3 memory system was revised so they actually need less of it than RDNA2 GPU's have.
The 7700XT has 48MB of Infinity cache.
That very well could be it. Tom self admittedly stated that he doesn't exactly understand what the specs and numbers he's given mean, unless he's specifically told.. so this could be a case of him hearing something and not really understanding what it's referring to.
It was always going to be a $499, max $549 device. Sony learnt their lesson with the PS3. As well their going to try and bring down the price as the gen progresses towards the end. If it aint broke dont fix it. For $100 more you get a pro console. Its as simple as you put it.
Charlietus
Newcomer
The PS5 is 308mm on 7nm. How big would the pro be on 6nm? I heard the rdna 3 CU's got optimized, and who knows how much of rdna 4 there is on the pro, so I don't know how I would calculate it
At least N4P is required. N6 process will cause a 300~350W console.
It looks like Sony won't drop price so PS5 Pro is $599 and PS5 is $499.
And PS3 is $499 for smaller HDD.
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