You are ignoring all the non retail games PS4 owners are enjoying. Three free PS+ games and 3-4 F2P games, Warframe is a big hit. None of these show up on NPD, neither do the digital upgrades of the four multi platform games. PS4 owners with PS+ could literally buy nothing and have six months of games to play, the same is not true for the XB1, which has one F2P game as I understand it.
Compare and contrast XBox One and PlayStation 4 from the user perspective
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You are ignoring all the non retail games PS4 owners are enjoying. Three free PS+ games and 3-4 F2P games, Warframe is a big hit. None of these show up on NPD, neither do the digital upgrades of the four multi platform games. PS4 owners with PS+ could literally buy nothing and have six months of games to play, the same is not true for the XB1, which has one F2P game as I understand it.
My theoretical illustration already explained how; the sales can be spread across a larger range of titles, and I'd even expect that from a better library (not that I support this view, nor otherwise. I was only contesting your assertion that better exclusive sales is proof of better library, a view that still needs contesting because you haven't rethought it and are just repeating it).
The only data we have are for disc based titles in the us.
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Equally it could mean the games sales/downloads that aren't being reported (Resogun, Flow, Flower, Contrast etc) are the appeal. Nobody knows unless Sony and Microsoft publish their digital sales/downloads.
Exactly. And in terms of exclusives we know zip about the next Halo and Uncharted, very little about Quantum Break and The Order and not a whole lot about Infamous and Titanfall. It's as much hype/anticipation/expectation as objective assessment of the knowns.
I explained this earlier. It has been my experience that when comparing game libraries in the console space that AAA retail titles have had disproportionate if not exclusive influence in these comparisons. If this mindset has changed and these smaller titles are now being weighed more heavily by the collective console-owning community than they have in the past, then I guess that explains the inconsistency.
That the poll question was factoring in future releases does this also, though, and doesn't need any re-thinking of the console-owner mindset. I'm inclined to think that these tent-pole releases are still paramount in the minds of the console-owning community and still carry more weight in these types of comparisons.
I'm not implying anything here, but, using a real-world example of a known sales performance, I could ask how the XBOne could sell 3M units at $499 in 13 territories and you could present me with a theoretical scenario where it was the only next-gen console on the market after 8 years and that *could* explain those sales. It would provide no insight into the actual situation where the was another console released at the same time which sold 4.2M units in approximately the same time-frame.
The sales were *not* spread across a larger range of titles because there were *not* a larger range of titles. As far as retail console exclusives that sales comparison I provided is the entire list.
If you want me to change or rescind my assertion, you need to explain why it is invalid in these circumstances, not how it *could* be invalid in other circumstances.
Alternatively, if you can think of a better objective measure of the appeal of titles in the marketplace than actual measured purchasing behavior in that marketplace I'd be happy to use it. As you well know, for most measures the "objective" part is lacking.
Why are you limiting library to exclusives? Library is the total range of games on the platforms. If people voting felt there was a better (subjective) selection of titles on PS4 than XB1, they'd vote that they feel PS4 has a better library. There'll be different behaviours here too, as I'm sure some people who love a particular game (let's say Resogun) would be willing to vote PS4 as the best library even if the rest of the games stink, and vice versa for XB1 (XB1 has the best library because it has Ryse). Then there'll be others who report on an overall assessment of the full library and what games, plural, appeal to them. eg. 'Even though KZ is the best title of the new consoles, F5, Ryse and D3 combined give XB1 the best library'.
I'm not saying the results are accurate. I have no opinion on which platform has the best games - I don't know what games they have! I'm saying your argument is invalid. My point is entirely that your use of exclusives is inaccurate in gauging the best library as there is at least one case where the best exclusive sales would not represent the best library.
Total number of genres represented and average metacritic score across the whole library (maybe remove outliers)? I certainly wouldn't count sales of exclusives as evidence of the best library. XB has typically had a few more gangbuster exclusives than PS I think, but there are plenty of people who prefer PS's library. Looking at PS2, games like ICO didn't sell well but would see some people rate it as having the best library due to diversity. Others who love Halo and the better quality of a few cross-platform games (eg. Splinter Cell) would say XB had the best library.
All I know about my xbox user experience is that I am so used to using Kinect to control my entertainment/game system now, that I have several times found myself giving verbal directions to my mobile phone or Car Bluetooth by prefacing commands with "Xbox", instead of hitting the button. 
Also find myself talking to my other tvs without Kinect and disappointed when nothing happens.
It is a very compelling ,engaging and empowering feature.
Also find myself talking to my other tvs without Kinect and disappointed when nothing happens.
It is a very compelling ,engaging and empowering feature.
I'm limiting to exclusives, because that's what differentiates them. I understand that the overall quality of a library is determined by all of the games available, but shouldn't the games that are common between two different libraries contribute equally to the quality of those libraries?
And different behaviors by individuals tend to be marginalized by aggregation. I wouldn't find it odd that an individual might have a different evaluation. I do find it curious when a sizable group does, though. I wish they had gone the extra mile and had the respondants list why they made their choices and then broke out a summary of the responses, but I'm sure that was more work than necessary to serve the intent of the poll, which was to get clicks.
But the top exclusive saleswise on the PS4 sold approximately as well as three different exclusives did on the XBOne and the only other one sold (relatively) poorly. I having trouble reconciling that the PS4's *current* library was evaluated as better than the XBOne's when the two libraries are largely the same and for the titles that are different, consumers have shown no exceptional affinity for any of those unique titles on the PS4 when it came time to vote with their wallets.
I don't think reviews are objective. Not at all.
Of course there are. Confirmation bias guarantees it. As it would for anyone who has invested in any platform. Individual opinions are meaningless. Unscientific polls (like this one) are better, but still flawed.
That's the thing, though, you can explain nuanced and subjective behavior amongst individuals and small groups, but in the aggregate these tend to get smoothed out.
I would argue against that, with a simple extreme example
Lets say we have one common game for two consoles
one currently has 2 games and this new game ups the number to 3
Another currently has 50 games and this new game ups the number to 51.
Does this new game contribute equally to both libraries? No.
This is only true when you look at the effect it has on each console's library individually. In your example that new game coming out for both consoles would not move the needle at all when comparing the library of the one with 51 games to the library of the one with 3. The only way it could affect the comparison is if it only came out on one or the other.
That's true, but your list of titles seems very small. What about download titles? What about PS4 exclusives that are on PC?
What if those shoppers bought other games instead? Why is buying other games than the top exclusives not counting towards 'best library' which surely is 'offering games I want to buy'?
I don't think they are, but it's hard to pin that info down.
That's a common misconception in interpreting detail. Just because a title doesn't appeal to the masses, doesn't mean it isn't important to one person, who can vote for that platform based on that one title. PS2 had plenty of important titles fleshing out the library that weren't big sellers, but for the gaming connoisseur, those games were what game the machine its stellar library. this argument comes up repeatedly when talking about how important platform exclusives are. Some point to the top selling games on PS and say they are all 3rd party titles, so the exclusives don't matter. But those exclusives that sell just 1 or 2 million, a small proportion of the market, are the titles that swung a purchase in favour of PS over something else that has the same 3rd party library.
No personal opinion is, but a mathematical average of a large sample base will give a general overview of how people on average feel about a title. As the question was 'best library,' the result can't be objective, except by accepting a subjective standard by which the data can be objectively measured.
Best Library = best selling AAA exclusives
No, Best Library = greatest number of games
No, Best Library = greatest number of games with a Metacritic of 70 or greater
No, Best Library = highest number of games released a month
Lots of ways to come up with an objective measure, all of which are subjective.
Yep. So really don't see that much point in arguing about a poll.
In which case, you'd have to think the data was the actual consensus. It could be a case of 40% each voted PS4 or XB1 based on the machine they owned, and the remaining 20% voted on fringe titles that most people don't care about, but which was enough to shift the scores 59 : 41.
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That's the goal, but of course a lot of conditions have to be met for that to be true. Not the least of which is that the sample be representative of the "people" you are extrapolating results about.
I've mentioned this a couple other times now, but again regarding d/l titles as of the last time that list warz were hot and heavy d/l only titles were not being weighed very heavily in library comparisons. I haven't seen any indications that sentiment has changed. I don't know that it hasn't, I just haven't seen it addressed. To be honest, I haven't really seen any serious list warz either since the consoles launched and pre-launch I was turned off enough by the character of the discussions going on that I was paying less attention.
It's not really top exclusives, it's *only* exclusives with the caveat about d/l titles. And isn't it more accurate to say best library is "offering more games I want to buy than are offered by the other console"?
Not really. Everything's on the online stores (thank you digital future). Here are the links for the US stores.
PS4
XBOne
Compare away.
Edit: Just noticed that, oddly, the PSN store lists games that aren't out yet. You can just ignore anything with no price, though. It also lists multiple versions and add-ons for the same games as separate entries.
Yes, but the libraries aren't fleshed-out. They are as bare bones as they will ever be. This is why I keep pointing out that while what you say may be generally true and apply in most situations, I don't think that it does now in *this* situation. This may be the only tine that you can legitimately look at a handful of exclusives, because this is the only time there are actually *are* only a handful of exclusives.
No personal opinion is, but a mathematical average of a large sample base will give a general overview of how people on average feel about a title. As the question was 'best library,' the result can't be objective, except by accepting a subjective standard by which the data can be objectively measured.
I'm really glad you said this as it made me realize the inconsistency of my thinking regarding the Metacritic aggregation. In one case I'm pointing out that subjectivity is mitigated by aggregation, on the other I'm saying Metacritic isn't valid because reviews are subjective. Metacritic is a better metric than I had considered, actually, especially when further aggregating scores across an entire library of games.
I still have issues with Metacritc in that:
- I believe that the conversion process between the source scoring system to the universal Metacritic score can be deeply flawed.
- I have a big issue with the asinine ways that people use Metacritic scores to compare individual (and often wholly dissimilar) games.
- I think a 100 point scale is stupid. What's the difference between an 86 and an 87 really?
Yep. So really don't see that much point in arguing about a poll.
But I like arguing.
Especially when I can come out of it a little smarter than I went in.
This particular question actually leaned more towards XBOne than some of the other questions, so maybe I wasn't far off about their being a base score that represents neutral. Or maybe that's my own confirmation bias.
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What if the title is 'better' on one platform or another? DLC timing, better graphics, if its online multiplayer title the online ecosystem - all factor into the enjoyment. Granted its subjective but simply having the same title doesn't mean the experience is equal.
Do you think it likely that, when presented with this poll question, that respondents went into this level of detail with their thinking in order to come up with their answer?
No. But people can feel a certain level of enjoyment for a certain experience which they can contrast with another without having to go deep in detail searching for what has contributed to it
Perhaps or perhaps not, its really doesn't matter. Its like asking that same question when (insert your favorite platform of choice) loses in NPD. Of course since you chose something else you will feel that those who bought the competitor made the wrong choice but that doesn't disqualify their choice.
If anything I saw an awful lot of hubris from Sony last go around and there was an attempt to dehumanize or be critical of those who bought 360 instead of PS3 and similarly we see similar vitrol this go round. Its early days and MS may end up being the most successful platform but to do that they will need get the same public that some here are arguing are idiots to prefer their platform rather than simply attack them for their decision making.
Then why did you even attempt to address it?
Not really. I have tried to keep my personal preferences out of it as much as possible sticking to the only objective measure I could think of to explain why that particular result seemed odd. Honestly, once I found out the poll question was taking into account announced, but unreleased titles as well as current library I was satisfied that that explained the result. All of the remaining discussion is debating how the general console owning population might evaluate various consoles' libraries. I have no investment in this result, I just want to know to satisfy my curiosity.
Wait, what? When? The closest I saw to this was some bitterness after MS's DRM reversal where this was blamed on a "vocal minority" that had deprived these posters of their preferred DRM system. There were some pretty strong words thrown at people who had spoken up against the initial system. As for just calling people idiots for their choice of system? I haven't seen it.
I have learned to accept the presence of fanboys, who I define separately from platform enthusiasts. The distinction I make is that enthusiasts don't have the need to project negativity towards competing platforms. They just view their preferred platform in a more positive light than a more objective person might, which is fine. Fanboys, though, are responding to the same base psychological impulses as racists, sexists, homophobes and all other forms of bigots. So I try to be glad that at least they have chosen a fairly harmless outlet for their maladjusted psyches
Oh please, show me your statistics
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