AMD Mantle API [updating]

The question is: when will the Windows DX12 install base overtake the AMD Mantle compatible hardware install base ...
 
UniversalTruth said:
so, are you claiming that DX11.x was thought to be the end of the road and there had been nothing in MS' minds for development? :oops: WOW! :oops:
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MS haven't given a sh1t about PC gaming for a long time, so yeah I do suspect that DX11 was more or less it from them, at least in the near term (priorities can change over time).

It took competition which threatened their monopoly on the graphics API (and thus Windows lock in for PC gamers) to drive them into action. To be fair, I'll bet their shrinking OS market share and the introduction of SteamOS also played a part.
 
xDxD said:
I think dx12 was developed in years, not in just few months because mantle, don't you think?
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In which case, wouldn't the XBOX One launch, their own internally developed device completely reliant on DX, have been the ideal intersect point?
 
I could see Mantle pushing the DX forward, but not directly. I think Mantle has encouraged Nvidia to expose some of its gpus' lower level functionality, thereby giving MS an opportunity to release a new lighter weight version of DX that caters to more than just a subset of Windows users who have GCN based gpus.
 
It sounds very unmicrosoft to simply halt development on an API and deliberately let the competition catch up and surpass.

Let's first see when DX12 will be available and if it requires new HW features.

If it's available soon or if it requires hardware features (especially this one!), then it's pretty much guaranteed that it was in development before Mantle was announced.
 
xDxD said:
Roy Taylor at AMD has said that..www.techpowerup.com/182416/there-wo...t-of-next-bundle-amd-vice-president.html?cp=3
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then the guy from AMD was wrong:

AMD’s Roy Taylor Started the Obituary of DirectX, but Microsoft Says Not So Fast

Microsoft, for its part, denies Mr. Taylor’s earlier claim that DirectX is ending anytime soon.

“DirectX is the world’s leading low-level interface for gaming and graphics. Microsoft is actively investing in DirectX as the unified graphics foundation for all of our platforms,” the company said in a statement. “DirectX is evolving and will continue to evolve. We have absolutely no intention of stopping innovation with DirectX.”

Microsoft’s statement seems to be as bland and perfunctory as any denial-of-rumour release. But as Mr. Taylor is far from an uninformed outsider (he stressed in e-mails that he wasn’t authorized to speak on Microsoft’s behalf), one has to wonder what he knows that brought him to make his claim that the end of DirectX was nigh.
 
UniversalTruth said:
then the guy from AMD was wrong:

AMD’s Roy Taylor Started the Obituary of DirectX, but Microsoft Says Not So Fast

Microsoft, for its part, denies Mr. Taylor’s earlier claim that DirectX is ending anytime soon.

“DirectX is the world’s leading low-level interface for gaming and graphics. Microsoft is actively investing in DirectX as the unified graphics foundation for all of our platforms,” the company said in a statement. “DirectX is evolving and will continue to evolve. We have absolutely no intention of stopping innovation with DirectX.”

Microsoft’s statement seems to be as bland and perfunctory as any denial-of-rumour release. But as Mr. Taylor is far from an uninformed outsider (he stressed in e-mails that he wasn’t authorized to speak on Microsoft’s behalf), one has to wonder what he knows that brought him to make his claim that the end of DirectX was nigh.
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I got mostly the feeling, that DX12 was absolutely not what it will be now...

I dont think we will have got any anouncement about a future DX"12" version so early, not before windows 9 is starting to show up.

DirectX 11.2 on console is allready made with a more " close to metal " approach ( Close to metal in this case is a bit exagerate i aggree )... I can imagine Mantle have push MS to reevaluate his position and take this road for the PC version.
 
DavidGraham said:
Darn it, any chance this thing is at least partially compatible with GCN or Kepler?
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Actually this should be directly based on GCN1.0/1.1 and Kepler/Fermi. If it's based on Mantle concepts, it's a direct response to Mantle and it should work right where Mantle works, i.e. on existing mid- to high-end hardware.

Also they mention Qualcomm as a session sponsor, which means Qualcom solutions will be showcased, and even their latest Adreno 420 is said to be a D3D11 compliant part (and anything 200-300-series was just D3D9).


[post=1831076]As I said above[/post], I would also expect Microsoft to introduce a streamlined display driver model with a unified API for both D3D9 (mobile) and D3D10/D3D11 hardware, not two separate DDI9 and DDI10/11 as in WDDM 1.x and Direct3D 11.x That way programmers will have a choice of using familiar D3D10/11 API and a "lighweight" D3D11 runtime, which will span feature_level_9_1 to feature_level_11_1, or move to a new streamlined D3D12 API which will probably require at least feature_level_11_1 as a start, that is support for tesselation stage and hull/domain shaders in addition to pixel/vertex/geometry shaders.
 
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UniversalTruth said:
“DirectX is the world’s leading low-level interface for gaming and graphics. Microsoft is actively investing in DirectX as the unified graphics foundation for all of our platforms,” the company said in a statement. “DirectX is evolving and will continue to evolve. We have absolutely no intention of stopping innovation with DirectX.”
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I dunno what they intended to say with this, but all I gathered from it was "Indeed there will be no DirectX 12".
 
silent_guy said:
It sounds very unmicrosoft to simply halt development on an API and deliberately let the competition catch up and surpass.

Let's first see when DX12 will be available and if it requires new HW features.

If it's available soon or if it requires hardware features (especially this one!), then it's pretty much guaranteed that it was in development before Mantle was announced.
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MS is not a disinterested party. I'm sure they see advantages to holding back PC gaming performance so that it is on par with consoles. It's not dissimilar to what they did holding the balance of power during the HD-DVD/Blu-ray battle when everything was stalled until digital downloads caught up.

It's funny how so many people have decried Mantle whilst holding up DX as the level playing field that neither Nvidia nor AMD control, but have completely forgotten that MS have their own agendas too. When it comes to gaming, I'm not believing anything they say on gaming, just what they do.

Jason Holtman left MS after being poached from Valve/Steam - after six months:

Microsoft’s often troubled relationship with PC gaming took a positive step in our eyes when the company hired Jason Holtman, previously the head of Steam at Valve, last summer. Now it looks like the gain was short-lived as it emerges that Holtman has left Microsoft after only six months.
Neowin first spotted that Holtman’s LinkedIn page was updated to indicate that he departed from Microsoft in January after being hired in August. He had previously spent seven years at Valve.
A source who knows Holtman tells PC Gamer that he posted a confirmation and goodbye on his Facebook page: “Last week I left Microsoft and said goodbye to my friends there. Now looking around for something interesting and fun—no end of that in video games!”
Microsoft has not made a statement about the apparent departure—we’ll update when we've learned more about the future of Microsoft’s relationship with PC gaming and Holtman’s short-lived tenure there.
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And there's always this:

Angelus Errare said:
For people getting their hopes up. This is MS's various statements on their promise to PC gaming.


Sorry, but all MS is doing is blowing smoke up the ass of gullible people. So yea go ahead and get your hopes up and get excited. In a year or two when none of what they say comes to fruition...I'll pretend to act shocked.
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That there is one fine chronicle of corporate bullshit speak.

If Xbox didn't exist and MS was trying to push Windows against Playstation then I imagine things would be a bit more "focused" for PC gaming. It would be interesting if Xbox was running regular Windows 8, blurring the lines between platforms. But obviously they prefer total control and lockdown on Xbox.
 
DmitryKo said:
Actually this should be directly based on GCN1.0/1.1 and Kepler/Fermi. If it's based on Mantle concepts, it's a direct response to Mantle and it should work right where Mantle works, i.e. on existing mid- to high-end hardware.
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I agree, D3D 12 should not require new hardware features (but perhaps be able to use some of the latest ones)

I guess it would run on GCN 1.0, Fermi, and Ivy Bridge. I have no clear idea if you'd rather need Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge or Haswell and it's probable D3D 12 draws the line at one of them. Ivy Bridge feels nice since it can see some driver support while Sandy be let to age comparatively, and it would imply the Bay Trail Atom/Celeron/Pentium stuff gets D3D 12 support.
 
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