NVIDIA GT200 Rumours & Speculation Thread

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That first picture is a view of the underside of the cooler - there's no memory along that side of the GPU because that's where the PCI Express traces run.
Yeah, and that view show arguably that to the left and to the right from the GPU package itself there are two times four metal-bumps for cooling memory-chips - but the board-shot AnarchX also linked to shows only two mem chips on either side of the die.
 
Yeah, and that view show arguably that to the left and to the right from the GPU package itself there are two times four metal-bumps for cooling memory-chips - but the board-shot AnarchX also linked to shows only two mem chips on either side of the die.
So it's not GTX280's cooler.

Jawed
 
Assuming GT200 is a performance monster as expected, I imagine that NV decided implementing DX 10.1 would not be necessary as they would still be able to outperform the ATI chips using an additional pass. The brute force approach over a more elegant one, so to speak. Heh, kind of reminds me of the days of acrimony over use of PS1.4 vs PS1.1 and then SM3.0 vs SM2.0! When will it ever end? :smile:

Of course, as NV are still the 500lb Gorilla in the GPU market, the software developers are always going to fall in step behind them. Software devs are always going to use the extra pass workaround though it is still disheartening to see DX10.1 support is not, apparently, going to be forthcoming from them at all:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1168297#post1168297

Strong-arm tactics from the Gorilla in the room, I expect.
 
Redundancy techniques in practice always bring NVIDIA relatively good return on product contributions at premium grades of wide range product lines.


G92- G92 150/G92 270/G92 400/

RV670- RV670 only

This time, NVIDIA will launch 8800GT 320 MB alike to compete RV770XT and depreciate RV770Pro's potential market value, short after when 9900GTX will be available to the majority of public.


My argument is that for recent 3 quarters in aggregation, ATI has not been contributed any excellent result that AMD truly counted on .


Most sources point to the rv770 having above 9800gtx performance explain how a 8800gt will compete.
 
So it's not GTX280's cooler.

Jawed
I do not know, but I woulnd't be surprised if it were. Remember G80-based 8800 GTS? There were cards with different blank memory spots (obviously relating to which ROPs went unused) - but IIRC they all had the necessary bumps to cool a fully equipped board.
 
ATI GPUs have fine-grained redundancy which means turning off 1 ALU in 17, for example. So every GPU is built slightly bigger than needed and then the vast majority of defects are "captured" by the fine redundancy, resulting in a full-spec GPU. Clock speeds are obviously a separate matter. And apparently there were some HD3690s based on recovered RV670s. Seemingly these have half the memory bus active.

Jawed
But that's only for the ALUs themselves, not the schedulers, the TMUs, the ROPs, the MCs, etc. - so it's not magically going to catch as many defects as having coarse redundancy everywhere as NVIDIA does. On the other hand, the nice thing with their approach is that they can sell more chips at the maximal or near-maximal ASPs, so the gross margins calculations aren't fully obvious.

BTW, it's not just about redundancy. I stumbled about this very nice whitepaper from Synopsys recently: http://www.synopsys.com/products/solutions/dfm/higheryield_article.pdf - clearly they are focused on reducing htospots which would cause serious yield issues, but another obvious implication is that lower transistor density (not just using more transistors for the job, that's not the point) in general can improve yields through all the main defect mechanisms, for both functionality and variability reasons.

This is also why I expect, for example, the density of the 'unique' part of modern GPUs with no redundancy to be noticeably less dense than the rest of the chip; it's not just about I/O & analogue not scaling, it's also about some parts of the chip not being as dense on purpose. This might in part be able to explain NVIDIA's lower transistor density on 65nm (see: G96 vs G84, for example) but doesn't really explain why their transistor counts per unit went up despite relatively small changes and relatively unimpressive clock speeds. So yeah, it's not all excusable either! ;)

Another fairly obvious consequence of the above is that yields really aren't that much about die size anymore. It still matters, but it's far far from the main factor. How good your designers & your design tools/flow are is likely orders of magnitude for important, especially for a design with inherent coarse redundancy. Sorry for the semi-OT BTW, but I figured that given the yield discussions for GT200 this was all well worth pointing out.
 
G92- G92 150/G92 270/G92 400/

RV670- RV670 only
They are using entirely different redundancy techniques - RV670 uses a finer grained redundancy technique than NVIDIA.

But that's only for the ALUs themselves, not the schedulers, the TMUs, the ROPs, the MCs, etc. - so it's not magically going to catch as many defects as having coarse redundancy everywhere as NVIDIA does. On the other hand, the nice thing with their approach is that they can sell more chips at the maximal or near-maximal ASPs, so the gross margins calculations aren't fully obvious.

Course grained redundnacy isn't magic - of course there are course grained redundancys (and the notion of 128-bit RV670's, and the alternative configurations of R600 show that), its just question of whether your fine grainded redundancy leaves enough drop-out to make it worth while having products that have significant amounts of units removed.
 
Nordichardware
Thats good news for all the people who want to buy a new card in July/August.

Any news whether the GT200b is just a die-shrink or rather a die-shrink combined with a switch to smaller memory-interface/GDDR5?
Sounds like damage control to me. There is not much difference in July-November anyway. I'll wait for the GT200b.

G80 .... G92 = 1 year
GT200 .... GT200b = 4 months :LOL:

Clearly the life cycle of GT200 is pretty limited. Could it be the shortest lived GPU ever? Nvidia needs to do only because it is only the largest gpu ever.
 
Course grained redundnacy isn't magic - of course there are course grained redundancys (and the notion of 128-bit RV670's, and the alternative configurations of R600 show that), its just question of whether your fine grainded redundancy leaves enough drop-out to make it worth while having products that have significant amounts of units removed.
Yeah, that's perfectly correct of course. How much coarse redundancy you expose also depends on how many SKUs you believe it makes sense to create out of a chip. One interesting benefit of fine-grained redundancy might also be that it would make very-high-density ALUs more desirable, since defects are less of a problem, and that could clearly also improve perf/$.

My impression is definitely that ATI's ROP/MC system is less flexible in terms of redundancy, however if the GT200's unit proportions are also very approximately correct for R6xx/R7xx, then clearly ROP redundancy isn't a huge deal. As always, this kind of thing is extremely complex to evaluate and there's a clear lack of raw data to do it properly...
 
I wonder how a 120 sp, 256bit version of a GT200-derived core architecture would stack up against G92 (the current 65nm model), in terms of transistor count and die sizes...
 
I wonder how a 120 sp, 256bit version of a GT200-derived core architecture would stack up against G92 (the current 65nm model), in terms of transistor count and die sizes...
Why would they spend R&D on recreating a lower performing G92b? :p

G92b looks like it will end up in the ~260mm2. Since what you are describing is essentially half GT200, I doubt if it'll be smaller than this.
 
Why would they spend R&D on recreating a lower performing G92b? :p

G92b looks like it will end up in the ~260mm2. Since what you are describing is essentially half GT200, I doubt if it'll be smaller than this.

Didn't they do that already for G92 (with G94) ?
Why would this time be any different ? ;)

My point was in comparing, not price segmentation, since we know about the 55nm shrink of G92 (which, BTW, would be conflicting with G94, no ?), but how much die size and transistor savings it could achieve by cutting down the chip (therefore hinting at the GT200 midrange derivatives' performance, something i doubt we'll see this year).
 
I don't think the ALU-TEX ratio calculation, relative to G80, is as simple for GT200 as it might seem...
 
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