Hey guys, what's the difference between reviewing audiophile components and PC equipment? Nothing!
Subjective reviews, mmhmm.
Subjective reviews, mmhmm.
[H] reviews the KillerNIC...
- Thread starter Tim Murray
- Start date
What a freaking joke. I hope [H] was paid well for their services. 
Someone needs to do a scientific and controlled review of it. They need to compare it to the common onboard NICS (nForce-4, Marvel, nForce 680i, p965, p975) and also add-in NICs of PCI and PCI-Express flavors (3com, Intel, Marvel, Cisco). They need to do controlled network throughput, latency, and cpu usage benchmarks. They should also utilize Windows XP and Windows Vista since Vista has an entirely rewritten networking stack. Also, the in-game situations they need to be exactly reproducable -- which seems to be impossible to do in the current games used.
Someone needs to do a scientific and controlled review of it. They need to compare it to the common onboard NICS (nForce-4, Marvel, nForce 680i, p965, p975) and also add-in NICs of PCI and PCI-Express flavors (3com, Intel, Marvel, Cisco). They need to do controlled network throughput, latency, and cpu usage benchmarks. They should also utilize Windows XP and Windows Vista since Vista has an entirely rewritten networking stack. Also, the in-game situations they need to be exactly reproducable -- which seems to be impossible to do in the current games used.
There's a lot of steps that can be done in order to review the KillerNIC in a proper way, none of which were taken with it in the [H] review.
However, I've yet to come across a way to reproduce an online game exactly, in fact its impossible I would guess, graphically you can (demos) but there's a number of things you'd be missing, one of which is the network usage part.
However, I've yet to come across a way to reproduce an online game exactly, in fact its impossible I would guess, graphically you can (demos) but there's a number of things you'd be missing, one of which is the network usage part.
result? of course$250US isnt worth it. This thing has been around for awhile and hasnt moved anywhere, i see they slapped some stupid heatsink on it as well now.
Really what it comes down to is it may very well improve pings and *framerates by 0-2-3%, but in my opinion its not even worth trying to prove since for $250 you could problably upgrade your processor, graphics card, or buy Vista (assuming the new network stack effects it in the positive). All of which go a hell of a long way further than this gimmick which attempts to poorly improve something that you get for free on 99% of motherboards produced today. This is exactly like 'gaming' marketed routers that are useless due to the data bandwidth limit being on the end of the ISP and server.
*Thinking about it i bet the framerate gain is totally nuked in a graphics limited situation which online games switch to all the time as things like more models render in your average HL2/Unreal/BF/MMO game.
Really what it comes down to is it may very well improve pings and *framerates by 0-2-3%, but in my opinion its not even worth trying to prove since for $250 you could problably upgrade your processor, graphics card, or buy Vista (assuming the new network stack effects it in the positive). All of which go a hell of a long way further than this gimmick which attempts to poorly improve something that you get for free on 99% of motherboards produced today. This is exactly like 'gaming' marketed routers that are useless due to the data bandwidth limit being on the end of the ISP and server.
*Thinking about it i bet the framerate gain is totally nuked in a graphics limited situation which online games switch to all the time as things like more models render in your average HL2/Unreal/BF/MMO game.
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Rainbow Man
Veteran
Things like this card is worth the money if you as a buyer think it's worth the money. This doesn't change depending on positive (or negative) opinions on the web; like anyone would really decide that chocolate ice cream isn't their favorite flavor anymore because some guy on the web says he hates that..
It's a geek network card. If you like geeky stuff and the software for it works the way it's supposed to, then it's probably worth the money.
I seem to remember it's basically a Linux system on a card and that you could write programs for it. That increases geekyness factor even more. If people make some interesting stuff for the card then it could become even more worth it, for those that are already interested in stuff like this.
It's like those xfi soundblasters or agiga or whatever physics cards. Not for everybodym, but if people enjoy stuff like that then buy it..
Peace.
It's a geek network card. If you like geeky stuff and the software for it works the way it's supposed to, then it's probably worth the money.
I seem to remember it's basically a Linux system on a card and that you could write programs for it. That increases geekyness factor even more. If people make some interesting stuff for the card then it could become even more worth it, for those that are already interested in stuff like this.
It's like those xfi soundblasters or agiga or whatever physics cards. Not for everybodym, but if people enjoy stuff like that then buy it..
Peace.
Except the X-Fi cards actually DO something, which in this case is extremely important. Add to the fact that Creative has been doing it for years now and at least slowly has made advancements. Sadly they'll have to start that back up from scratch (using OpenAL) once Vista comes out as many of their once key games will be missing their features (Vista's new audio stack).
This card on the other hand really serves little purpose for what its actually sold for. Trust me, if a "geek" was really interested and had a reason to be running Linux they'd would have been doing it ages ago. The Killer NIC does next to nothing, I strongly do not believe a products "geek factor" should be a worthy way to judge a product.
The real issue in this thread was the review though. Purposely going around any real form of testing the product and being complete bullshit the entire time. Its very clear that its nothing more than a PR move in order to target the "gaming" crowd. There's a number of ways to test the card in a much more legitimate fashion that have already pointed out to in this thread.
Bullshit. Computer hardware isn't audiophile gear. You can actually test the impact of specific components in a closed environment without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars or worrying about people's opinion in determining whether something is useful. [H] apparently thought it was a good idea to take a product whose value is uncertain, do only subjective tests, and call it a day. I don't even know how Kyle Bennett of all people can be satisfied with that "review."
At this rate, we're going to be seeing shit like "Brilliant Pebbles for Gamers" or the "Clever Little CMOS Battery" in a year.
edit: I just looked up some of the Machina Dynamica snake oil and saw how the customer comments compared to the KillerNIC review. It's pretty telling...
Ahead of the server? Bigfoot Networks needs to add quantum physics processing to the Killer NICs marketing bulletpoints.
A hardware way to use a linux network stack instead of windows? Interesting, if rather sad comment on the state of the Windows stack, lol. Uhm, seems to me a software solution could do much of the same thing, just replace the windows stack. Only diff is the offloading of the computer for a task that generally takes 0-1% cpu time. Interesting tread, windows multitasking sucks, get multi core cpus, networking sucks, get a nic that has linux on it. lol
jamesnmandy
Newcomer
i dont see the big deal.....the Killer NIC, been a waste from day one, never bought into that marketing trap for one second
as far as [H]'s review, i dont see the problem, it's not wrong to review an item this way, nor is it any more wrong to review it the way Anandtech did it
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2865
Anandtech analyzed it with Networking tools, [H] analysed it with real world gameplay impact, or lack thereof.....but lets face it, 99% of people buying this thing and using it will only get the "real world" impact out of it anyways, so i can totally understand the validity of this review, i know most of you guys are looking for colorful charts that show a .02341 difference in latency, etc...etc.....
i keep looking for the B3D review of the Killer NIC and cannot seem to find it......because i was just so sure with so many critical responses from B3D members, certainly they would be comparing/contrasting the [H] review to their own.....but I guess there is nothing to compare to
not that i think it is worth anyones time reviewing it, but, still.....
as far as [H]'s review, i dont see the problem, it's not wrong to review an item this way, nor is it any more wrong to review it the way Anandtech did it
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2865
Anandtech analyzed it with Networking tools, [H] analysed it with real world gameplay impact, or lack thereof.....but lets face it, 99% of people buying this thing and using it will only get the "real world" impact out of it anyways, so i can totally understand the validity of this review, i know most of you guys are looking for colorful charts that show a .02341 difference in latency, etc...etc.....
i keep looking for the B3D review of the Killer NIC and cannot seem to find it......because i was just so sure with so many critical responses from B3D members, certainly they would be comparing/contrasting the [H] review to their own.....but I guess there is nothing to compare to
not that i think it is worth anyones time reviewing it, but, still.....
You're telling us we must review the product before we can state anything about the review of a product? That's pure bullshit.
The fact is that the review is completely useless and tip toes around doing anything of use. The comments from "real" gamers are completely bullshit. As pointed up above with the likes of "ahead of the server" type comments. Maybe they should have pointed some obvious points to their tester. Of course the card is still worth a pretty Silver award for being nothing but a very expensive K heatsink in your case.
Add to the fact that HardOCP prides itself on its splendid and straight reviews. Yeah....
The fact is that the review is completely useless and tip toes around doing anything of use. The comments from "real" gamers are completely bullshit. As pointed up above with the likes of "ahead of the server" type comments. Maybe they should have pointed some obvious points to their tester. Of course the card is still worth a pretty Silver award for being nothing but a very expensive K heatsink in your case.
Add to the fact that HardOCP prides itself on its splendid and straight reviews. Yeah....
jamesnmandy
Newcomer
i'm saying put your money where your mouth is, get Bigfoot to grant B3D a Killer NIC review and do it the way you guys want it done instead of badmouthing someone else's attempt, although, Kyle will give a crap less, he has his own way of reviewing and you have your's.....or....you would if you had a review of course, but at any rate, he has stated time and time again, that if you dont like his methods, go read someone else's, feel free to post all the opinionated comments you want on someone else's review, but last time i checked the mantra around here was about how opinions are pretty worthless and should be backed up with facts or some sort of substantiation of sorts......that's what i am asking for, walk the talk
i agree that the review was rather shallow and shy of nice numerical data, however, not everyone gets their jollies off reading pie charts and seeing .012531232 bits of difference, believe it or not, there are more people out there that just want to know how much better if at all it will make their experience
you seem to drive home my sentiments that the card is worthless
i really enjoy both types of reviews, when [H] or another site reviews a video card, i go there and read that review to see how it performed in a real world scenario, then i come here to see the really technical aspects of why it performs so much better (or worse) and to get some good ole' raw data, there's nothing wrong with either, it's all a matter of opinion, and i think there's room on the "world wide web" for all sorts of reviews, i simply take it upon myself to read several and do my research and form my own opinion before i buy
Tell ya what, you get a hold of Bigfoot and convince them to send one to Beyond3D where it will get a true review and I'll get Baron to do it.
They won't, guaranteed. B3D won't say what Bigfoot wants reviewers to say about their Killer NIC.
Do you honestly believe there is any real reason why all of the testing was done in house at Bigfoot's offices? Please.
There is no method in the review. None, its a big advertisement.
You must one huge website in order to get the card away from their offices, or you have to spend the money to get one. For some reason there must be a odd reason why the majority of user feedback has been negative.
There is no method in the review. None, its a big advertisement.
You must one huge website in order to get the card away from their offices, or you have to spend the money to get one. For some reason there must be a odd reason why the majority of user feedback has been negative.
jamesnmandy
Newcomer
agreed, i thought that was particularly unsettling and basically nullified any "findings" as far as i am concerned, but then again, i already knew in my own mind that it was trash to begin with, i was interested to see if they came up with any different results than Anandtech did, and basically they didn't, there is very little measurable and meaningful good coming from such a proposed purchase, both reviews verified my initial thoughts, one in one way, the other in another way, neither is wrong
Tell ya what, you get a hold of Bigfoot and convince them to send one to Beyond3D where it will get a true review and I'll get Baron to do it.
They won't, guaranteed. B3D won't say what Bigfoot wants reviewers to say about their Killer NIC.
i wish you guys could......Anandtech seemed to have gotten them to do their own testing though, and didn't exactly post a positive review.....and if you visit the discussion thread (as some of you obviously have based on writing style
) at [H] you will find that an employee of Bigfoot posted saying that [H] was provided cards to take with them to explore further, so this is not necessarily all there is to come....
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