DirectX 12: The future of it within the console gaming space (specifically the XB1)

[HTupolev]

Do you mean that going partial is possibly... = better performance with less CPU use? Is that even possible? Some kind of dynamic resolution?

You're reading too far into what Shifty said. The "partial" comment is just to round out the edges of a broad theoretical statement about application performance versus power when you improve your efficiency.

Essentially, when you switch to a more efficient method of doing something:
-If you continue to drive for maximum hardware utilization, you can get much more performance out of the same high power draw you used to have, or
-If you are okay with the performance that you used to have, you can enjoy that performance at lower power draw, or
-You can compromise, and have slightly better performance alongside slightly lower power draw. This is what Shifty referred to as "going partial."

 

[mosen]

for those who are interested:

PCTA: With much of DX12 still under wraps, is there anything you would particularly like to see it support?

Crytek: Feature-wise, we’ve been in touch with Microsoft since DX12’s inception, and Microsoft has been really keen on listening to developers, which is great. I don’t think I can disclose information currently, but a lot of features that we’ve been requesting for many years will finally be in there. One feature we would really like to see is DX12 on Windows 7, which would offer a much bigger market share for developers to aim at.

We would also like better debugging and profiling tools. I’ve been preaching for quite some time that PC gaming tools are lagging behind in comparison to tools available on the previous console generation, specifically the Xbox 360 and PS3.

PCTA: DirectX 12 is the first DirectX version for a long while that hasn’t required specific new GPU hardware to access all its features. Is that going to make it harder for you to sell new GPUs?

AMD: Well, firstly, all of our Graphics Core Next products, including APUs, support DirectX 12. However, one fact that I think some people don’t know is that there will be certain optional features of DirectX 12 that will necessitate new hardware from the graphics industry. We don’t know what those features will be yet, as the full spec hasn’t been defined, but we know that’s the case. So while most GPUs will be broadly compatible with the spec, there could be a feature that does need new hardware.

mobile.pcauthority.com.au//Article.aspx?CIID=391340&type=Feature&page=2

 

[iroboto]

oh nice. Yes!!!

PCTA: DirectX 12 is the first DirectX version for a long while that hasn’t required specific new GPU hardware to access all its features. Is that going to make it harder for you to sell new GPUs?

AMD: Well, firstly, all of our Graphics Core Next products, including APUs, support DirectX 12. However, one fact that I think some people don’t know is that there will be certain optional features of DirectX 12 that will necessitate new hardware from the graphics industry. We don’t know what those features will be yet, as the full spec hasn’t been defined, but we know that’s the case. So while most GPUs will be broadly compatible with the spec, there could be a feature that does need new hardware.

Heh, i'm excited again for DX12. But wrt. x1, I'm not so certain it will be supporting (or all of them) those features requiring new hardware since X1 is baked already and the full spec is still being defined.

 

[Allandor]

oh nice. Yes!!!


Heh, i'm excited again for DX12. But wrt. x1, I'm not so certain it will be supporting (or all of them) those features requiring new hardware since X1 is baked already and the full spec is still being defined.

well all featires are defined, only thing is that maybe not all features get into the final release.

 

[Cyan]

You're reading too far into what Shifty said. The "partial" comment is just to round out the edges of a broad theoretical statement about application performance versus power when you improve your efficiency.

Essentially, when you switch to a more efficient method of doing something:
-If you continue to drive for maximum hardware utilization, you can get much more performance out of the same high power draw you used to have, or
-If you are okay with the performance that you used to have, you can enjoy that performance at lower power draw, or
-You can compromise, and have slightly better performance alongside slightly lower power draw. This is what Shifty referred to as "going partial."

Nicely said, that much I am sure of. It kind of didn't compute well with me that Shifty said "lower CPU usage" and better performance in the same sentence, if you went "partial". Something had to give if that was the case, but reading your post I kind of primarily realise why he said that.

There is something about using technology efficiently that seems striking to me. I mean, say dynamic resolution, which I'd say is a very intelligent technique, over adding more horsepower to your console for the sake of it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

A little extra clarification, because it's always better to be clear than not.

DX11
100% processor utilisation at 100 Watts yields 100 Game Units of Fun

DX12 variations
Lower power draw - 50% processor utilisation at 50 Watts yields 100 Game Units of Fun
More performance - 100% processor utilisation at 100 Watts yields 200 Game Units of Fun
Midway point* - 75% processor utilisation at 75 Watts yields 150 Game Units of Fun

* This is a partial reduction in power draw and a partial increase in performance over DX 11.

 

[HTupolev]

There is something about using technology efficiently that seems striking to me. I mean, say dynamic resolution, which I'd say is a very intelligent technique, over adding more horsepower to your console for the sake of it.

Dynamic resolution can be considered "efficient" in terms of how much horsepower you need in order to get a certain end result from the human's point of view, the idea being that in intense sequences, the gamer "won't notice" the drop in resolution as much as they would have noticed the framerate drop that would otherwise have occurred.

That's not what "efficiency" means in this discussion, though. We're talking about how much useful algorithmic processing you're getting from a given amount of system work. In many computing systems, multiplying an integer by 2 in a general-purpose multiplier takes a lot more work than shifting an integer left by one bit, but they (within certain practical constraints regarding how multiplication is handled) give the same result. The latter option (shifting) is thus "more efficient."

 

[Starx]

Microsoft's redemption: DirectX 12

http://mobile.pcauthority.com.au//Article.aspx?CIID=391340&type=Feature

 

[function]

That's not what "efficiency" means in this discussion, though. We're talking about how much useful algorithmic processing you're getting from a given amount of system work. In many computing systems, multiplying an integer by 2 in a general-purpose multiplier takes a lot more work than shifting an integer left by one bit, but they (within certain practical constraints regarding how multiplication is handled) give the same result. The latter option (shifting) is thus "more efficient."

So are you saying that shifting from DX 11 to DX 110 would have been a more efficient than iterating to DX 12...?

 

[liquidboy]

Here's Andrew in a video interview (21 mins)

Andrew Lauritzen
Graphics Software Engineer
Intel

 

[Starx]

The Division Technical Director: DirectX 12 Will Improve Performance & Visuals Of Xbox One/PC Games

DirectX 12 brings PC and Xbox development closer, which makes development easier and faster, allowing us to focus more on features,”
“It also lets us work closer to “the metal”, the actual hardware, which means we can push performance and visual quality even more.

http://gamingbolt.com/the-division-...prove-performance-visuals-of-xbox-onepc-games

 

[iroboto]

The Division Technical Director: DirectX 12 Will Improve Performance & Visuals Of Xbox One/PC Games



http://gamingbolt.com/the-division-...prove-performance-visuals-of-xbox-onepc-games

Nothing really there. They seem to be talking just for the sake of it. Masters of click bait titles.

 

[Starx]

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I hope that Direct X12 does improve things for the Xbox One, but this is standard marketing 101.

It's a bit like Heinz saying "Our tomato sauce improves all burgers".

 

[iroboto]

DirectX 12: The future of it within the console gaming space (specifically th...

I hope that Direct X12 does improve things for the Xbox One, but this is standard marketing 101.

It's a bit like Heinz saying "Our tomato sauce improves all burgers".

It is nice tidbit to give out that fable legends have already been ported to dx12 though. I believe this is our first official confirmation of a game using dx12. From the release date of the game and possibly demo we can make reasonable guesses when dx12 should be released.

 

[iroboto]

DirectX 12: The future of it within the console gaming space (specifically th...

This is new to me:


New: Volume Tiled Resources

Slide deck of hardware based features available to dx11.3 cards and dx12 based cards. ?? Hopefully did not misquote or interpret that.

http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-filesyste...irect3D-12-_2D00_-New-Rendering-Features.pptx

DirectX 12 Lights Up NVIDIA’s Maxwell Launch - DirectX Developer Blog - Site Home

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/arc...-lights-up-nvidia-s-maxwell-editor-s-day.aspx

Fable legends on experimental dx12 UE4 engine video
http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/DirectX-Developer-Blog/DirectX-Techdemo

 

[Starx]

IMO This is a very nice article:

At first glance the announcement of Direct3D 11.3 would appear to be at odds with Microsoft’s development work on Direct3D 12, but in reality there is a lot of sense in this announcement. Direct3D 12 is a low level API – powerful, but difficult to master and very dangerous in the hands of inexperienced programmers

The third feature coming to Direct3D is Volume Tiled Resources. VTR builds off of the work Microsoft and partners have already done for tiled resources (AKA sparse allocation, AKA hardware megatexture) by extending it into the 3rd dimension.

VTRs are primarily meant to be used with volumetric pixels (voxels), with the idea being that with sparse allocation, volume tiles that do not contain any useful information can avoid being allocated, avoiding tying up memory in tiles that will never be used or accessed. This kind of sparse allocation is necessary to make certain kinds of voxel techniques viable

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8544/microsoft-details-direct3d-113-12-new-features

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That ties in with the Mojang acquisition. Expect to see hardware Minecraft Accelerators in the near future.

 

[iroboto]

Oddly Shifty this VTR talk sorta brings me back memories of this discussion about voxel tiling you guys had a long time ago.

http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=64314

To further this point since Voxel Global Illumination was the topic on that thread; From the Maxwell 2 GPUs from nvidia.
Really seems you guys were onto something back then.

Related to this thread, how much of D3D11.3 is integrated onto Xbox One. I can imagine the scenario where MS would have built X1 with this in mind and lobbied for it to be included in D3D11.3/DX12, I can equally imagine the scenario that it just wasn't ready in time.

Outside of the features covered by Direct3D 11.3, NVIDIA will also be adding features specifically to drive a new technology they are calling Voxel accelerated Global Illumination (VXGI).

At the highest level, VXGI is a manner of implementing global illumination by utilizing voxels in the calculations. Global illumination is something of a holy grail for computer graphics, as it can produce highly realistic and accurate lighting dynamically in real time. However global illumination is also very expensive, the path tracing involved taking up considerable time and resources. For this reason developers have played around with global illumination in the past – the original version of Epic’s Unreal 4 Engine Elemental demo implanted a voxel based global illumination method, for example – but it has always been too slow for practical use.

With VXGI NVIDIA is looking to solve the voxel global illumination problem through a combination of software and hardware. VXGI proper is the software component, and describes the algorithm being used. NVIDIA has been doing considerable research into voxel based global illumination over the years, and has finally reached a point where they have an algorithm ready to go in the form of VXGI.

VXGI will eventually be made available for Unreal Engine 4 and other major game engines starting in Q4 of this year. And while the VXGI greatly benefits from the hardware features built into Maxwell 2, it is not strictly reliant on the hardware and can be implemented through more traditional means on existing hardware. VXGI is if nothing else scalable, with the algorithm being designed to scale up and down with hardware by adjusting the density of the voxel grid, which in turn influences the number of calculations required and the resulting accuracy. Maxwell 2 for its part will be capable of using denser grids due to its hardware acceleration capabilities, allowing for better performance and more accurate lighting.

Source: http://anandtech.com/show/8526/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-review/4

 

[mosen]

I didn't see this slide before:

http://www.slideshare.net/DevCentralAMD/introduction-to-dx12-by-ivan-nevraev

-----------------------

How much is this related to VXGI from technical stand point?

We developed an implementation of Light Propagation Volumes, specifically targeted at modern GPUs (such as the one in Xbox One). Our method supports 2nd-Order Spherical Harmonics, which gives better directionality than the original method. We use compute shaders to generate a high quality voxel representation of the scene's geometry, which we use to provide secondary occlusion and multiple light bounces.

http://www.lionhead.com/blog/2014/april/17/dynamic-global-illumination-in-fable-legends/