Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

MS has pretty much given up on Media Center Edition and the DVR software.

Hell, the X1 would be more compelling to me if it had DVR integrated. More compelling than Kinect and speaking to it to change channels.

DVR and VOD are probably the some of the content and features that cable companies refuse to hand over. A XB1 or Apple TV already basically comes with VOD services and would diminish revenue for cable companies, while cable companies probably have very restrictive language around DVR just to keep content owners happy.

I know that Uverse won't let you watch DVR content on anything other than their setup box.

If Comcast actually owned the Xbox 1 then it wouldn't be a problem, but then the inexperience and incompetence to provide a streamlined and user friendly interface would prop up the moment they try to keep the console up to date with modern features.
 
Comcast using a PS4 or XB1 as a cable set top box makes as much sense as your local police department using GTRs for their highway patrolmen. These boxes are missing too many of the essentials and over engineered in areas are that are not a priority.
 
I would think the point at which one can draw conclusions would probably be when MS itself panics. If you see them selling the console with Kinect at a serious loss (I don't believe pulling the BR drive will help that much) then one might be able to start drawing some conclusions. . This could just be fatigue. Will not be enough to push me into buying one, but...

If they admit defeat and pull Kinect 2.0 entirely to cut the price under the PS4...
 
Doesnt Ms make almost twice the profit off their console that sony does? Im not sure of the numbers but I know Ms makes more profit per system. Ms also has plenty of income from android patent infringement, Xbox live and everything Pc software related. Sony needs the Ps4 sales badly and they are just now charging for online multiplayer. I for one am glad both systems are selling well, especially considering analyst predicting doom for nextgen consoles. I have said it several times but it is way too soon for Ms to start any kind of panic. Think about it if the ps4 wasnt out selling the x1 selling in 40 more territories something would be wrong. The main concern for Ms after the updates to the Os should be launching in as many countries as possible as soon as possible. When they accomplish this if the sales havent improved then they should be worrying about price cuts. If they want a temp boost before then they could always sell a Titanfall bundle with game and 6 months or a year of free Xbox Live for $499. They could save some cost by pre installing the game on the hard disk or use a download code like the Wii U does with LoZ:WWHD. Dropping the Kinect 2 would be an absolute terrible idea even though it's not used greatly in games yet it is of great use with the systems Ui. It also wouldnt hurt to include some sort of software to show it's potential like the solar system demo they have shown.
 
I would think the point at which one can draw conclusions would probably be when MS itself panics.
So you're saying about 6 months ago?, when they started doing all those 180's :)
Luckily for MS they did or else I believe now they'ld be struggling to match the wii U in sales

The thing is if they drop kinect (saving about $100) nothing is stopping people buying kinect for $100 later on, if they feel theyre missing out on something
kinect for 360 sold what? 30million I think I heard, this is more than the xbox (first one) sold, ppl made quite a few games for the original xbox and heres a device that outsold that, yet where were the decent games?

MS gambled on the xbone being a hit with casual crowd ( like wii / smartphones ), sure you can strike it huge if it works, but hows that american gridiron deal coming along, that cost MS $400 million over the next 5 years, smartmove? Nope
Better would be trying to get GTA6 exclusive on xbone (not PC/360/ps3/ps4) $400 million prolly would of done that. COD I'ld forget about (dying and activision will ask for too much), minecraft 2, xbone exclusive ($100million)
 
Doesnt Ms make almost twice the profit off their console that sony does? Im not sure of the numbers but I know Ms makes more profit per system.


I'm not sure but the recent financials, Xbox was said to decrease MS division profitability (which isn't saying X1 hardware isn't profitable, only that it's at least less profitable than other stuff), while Sony's game division increased profits I think. Which again doesn't say PS4 hardware is profitable, but kind of implies it at least isn't bad.

Now, this kind of tells us nothing in a vacuum, but it at least suggested to me the profitability might be not far apart.

If my conjecture is true, I think Kinect must be really expensive, given the $100 price spread, similar size SOC's, and DDR3 vs GDDR5. Kinect could be having something closer to a $200 bottom line effect rather than $100 in my opinion. It also could be that X1 is somewhat overengineered to prevent any reliability problems after RROD imo, but I'd imagine that's secondary to Kinect for cost.
 
BTW it does seem to me like MS is on the ball lately!

-Removing the sharpening filter
-Supporting battery indicator
-HDD managment
-tweaking the analog sticks to respawn's liking

You could argue these are things that should have been there initially, but still.

All in the latest update. Confirmation from Rebellion of a faster SDK, as well as a separate 8% GPU to come this fall if Thuway is true. Also suggests they care about performance (maybe a bit late now, heh) and are working to get the most out of what hardware's there.

Interference said there was originally 5GB for games, 3 reserved, but 1 of the the 3 GB was in limbo and could be released to games later. That was a long time ago and I've heard nothing more. I wonder if the comparison hits they're taking might cause them to release the 1GB? If so I have little faith we'd even know, heck it may have happened already.

To truly be on the ball we need to see a price drop and/or ditching Kinect though.

What if MS did something like $449 and Titanfall packed in as a near term desperation measure??

The only problem I could see would be essentially neutering Titanfall's stand alone sales potential might cost a pretty penny.
 
BTW it does seem to me like MS is on the ball lately!

-Removing the sharpening filter
-Supporting battery indicator
-HDD managment
-tweaking the analog sticks to respawn's liking

You could argue these are things that should have been there initially, but still..

Nothing on live streaming or sharing to social networks? That being said both companies have a long list of should have been ready at the launch. Microsoft is at least working on theirs
 
So you're saying about 6 months ago?, when they started doing all those 180's :)
That was panic about their product, not their sales. And if they had not changed anything and stuck to the original vision and marketed it properly, they may have sold far more. No-one can tell. Of course gamers who wanted a console and voiced their complaints would have been disappointed, but the market for non-gamers is 10x the size of that for gamers, so there's sense in chasing that other market.

This gen will go down as a text-book case. Depending on how MS does, their 180 will be analysed and conclusions drawn on what good business practice is, and whether about faces is good for business or not when you have a clear vision.
 
That was panic about their product, not their sales. And if they had not changed anything and stuck to the original vision and marketed it properly, they may have sold far more. No-one can tell. Of course gamers who wanted a console and voiced their complaints would have been disappointed, but the market for non-gamers is 10x the size of that for gamers, so there's sense in chasing that other market.

This gen will go down as a text-book case. Depending on how MS does, their 180 will be analysed and conclusions drawn on what good business practice is, and whether about faces is good for business or not when you have a clear vision.

What exactly have they removed that was appealing enough back then to the non-gamer market that they would have made them buy an XB1 and arent buying now?

All the non-gaming features are intact. Camera navigation is still intact. The DRM was related to gaming content. Not non gaming features.
 
What exactly have they removed that was appealing enough back then to the non-gamer market that they would have made them buy an XB1 and arent buying now?
The positioning. The features are all in, but the marketing and message is now 90% games console with some video stuff. And the software library is mostly core games. People are talking about Titanfall being the big franchise, instead of some Kinect wundertitle or such. MS started out chasing a new demographic (Nintendo's blue ocean strategy) but backtracked to take a blue ocean product and use it to target an established market.
 
Comcast using a PS4 or XB1 as a cable set top box makes as much sense as your local police department using GTRs for their highway patrolmen. These boxes are missing too many of the essentials and over engineered in areas are that are not a priority.

The "Virtual Joey" Dish Network announced at CES that just lets you access all your recorded and live programming from any Hopper DVR in your house through a PS3 or PS4 app is a novel approach. It's one less piece of hardware for them to install, one less cable they have to run and it keeps customers dependent on their service and DVR solution.

Anyway, new rumor is MS may be selling the Xbox business to Amazon... https://twitter.com/atPeteDodd/status/434635893585244161

That makes a certain amount of sense in that we know Amazon is looking to get IN to the console business, especially if Microsoft is looking hard at getting OUT of that business. On the upside, maybe Prime members would be entitled to Gold benefits if it goes through? Finally Gold would be worth paying for!
 
The positioning. The features are all in, but the marketing and message is now 90% games console with some video stuff. And the software library is mostly core games. People are talking about Titanfall being the big franchise, instead of some Kinect wundertitle or such. MS started out chasing a new demographic (Nintendo's blue ocean strategy) but backtracked to take a blue ocean product and use it to target an established market.

I believe the marketing shows what it can show. In true honesty there isnt much in terms of what it can show to the non-gamer to convince him to throw additional $500 even if there is a conscious decision to do so. There is no Kinect wundertitle because there isnt one for the casual to talk about. MS hasnt figured what this wundertitle will be and hence they dont have anything to show. They tried multiple times. Gamers are the only people left to talk about it and Titanfall is the only new thing left to talk about. So thats what is shows.

Nintendo's approach was super simple with Wii. They targeted just one demographic at the right price with a simple feature. Even Nintendo cant replicate their own success now. Let alone MS. Just like the XB1, the WiiU isnt what the Wii was. The WiiU is less simple, less friendly than the Wii, has an identity crisis and its pricey for what it offers.

We have different industries or businesses in the economy focusing on specific demographics. These players make a dedicated product at the right price to get the specific demographic buy the product. The XB1 tries to be all these at once. The price cant be good enough for all the different demographics, it cant be feature complete for all, it cant be capable enough for all, and for each demographic they are targeting, they are competing against many many businesses that have the ability to focus and offer exactly the features and at the price that their targeted demographics want.

At $500 the most complete and simplest feature MS can sell at this point, its the ability to play next gen games. Taking into consideration the silicon in the hardware, the backbone userbase is the gaming one. Its the main reason the silicon is pricey. The silicon in that thing was designed with the business model of the dedicated gaming console imprinted in its DNA. If MS needs to get the non-gamer and casual gamer more than the hardcore, the XB1 should have been build so that the silicon and price reflected it. An XBMC-like device with casual games and camera sold at a much cheaper price might have been closer to the product the non-gamers and casuals would want. But MS couldnt do that without giving up their previous market share.And therefore it needs to succeed as a games console to survive. Even if we assume that the non-gamer did buy the console to use its non-gaming features, it still needs to sell enough software and Gold Subscriptions to be considered a successful venture. If that fails, the whole product will fail. It will be selling hardware without enough generated profit to back it up. The XB1, at least currently, is like trying to take 3 different routes at the same time. In the future when the price might go down and features become more complete the picture might change. But not at this stage
 
I believe the marketing shows what it can show. In true honesty there isnt much in terms of what it can show to the non-gamer to convince him to throw additional $500 even if there is a conscious decision to do so. There is no Kinect wundertitle because there isnt one for the casual to talk about...
Right, because MS abandon their original vision and went with a generic gaming box. From 2009 they should have been focussed on this different product instead of just a gaming console. The 180s, the backtracking of online and the like, are just the tip of the decision-switching process. XB1 should have been a completely different experience without any emphasis on games, in the same way mobile devices don't emphasise the games even if gaming is a huge part of the experience.
 
Right, because MS abandon their original vision and went with a generic gaming box. From 2009 they should have been focussed on this different product instead of just a gaming console. The 180s, the backtracking of online and the like, are just the tip of the decision-switching process. XB1 should have been a completely different experience without any emphasis on games, in the same way mobile devices don't emphasise the games even if gaming is a huge part of the experience.

Its not about abandoning their vision. Its simply a matter of "cant".
 
Anyway, new rumor is MS may be selling the Xbox business to Amazon... https://twitter.com/atPeteDodd/status/434635893585244161

That certainly would be better than an android console. But I really don't see anyone being able to outright buy Xbox, I think it is just too expensive. It's not just the hardware, the entire Live infrastructure, all the internal support, the internal studios. If something like this did happen, I bet MS would still have to support it for X number of years as part of the deal as the transition would be pretty complicated.

It wouldn't surprise me if MS licensed out the SOC though. Perhaps an Amazon console built around the Xbox's SOC? That would make their rumored console a lot more appealing. Buy buying Double Helix, Amazon already acquired a dev that's very familiar with the development for the X1.
 
Could this Amazon deal be part of the license deal that MS hinted at in the Yukon leak? So not necessarily Xbox division being sold as so much MS licensing the platform to another 3rd party? For Amazon they have been looking at getting into gaming for years. So their interest in XB1 & cloud gaming would be a natural fit for their services. Not exactly sure how I feel about it, but there's probably a little truth to the rumors. Kinda glad I held off buying the XB1. Will be interesting how this pans out.

Tommy McClain
 
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I don't think it would necessarily be as expensive as one might expect. It depends on how Motivated MS is to sell. If they forecast a downward slide long term with the Xbox One failing to replace dwindling 360 revenue they might be happy to sell it rather cheaply to get it off the books. They might look back and say "Since we've started the brand we've lost more than we've ever made, so if you pay us the difference so we break even on the whole venture it's a deal." That might be like 4-5 Billion USD.

Think about when Disney bought Star Wars. Lucas sold it for what seemed like a shockingly low amount given the brand felt effectively priceless. But he was just interested in divesting himself of the property so someone else could do something with it. Ironically, selling Xbox may be one of the few ways to win back a lot of alienated gamers. A customer service orientate business like Amazon could rehabilitate the image, instill confidence and carry on without the "Micro$haft" baggage in the same way a new JJ Abrhams Star Wars movie might entice people burned by the Lucas prequels.
 
I don't think it would necessarily be as expensive as one might expect. It depends on how Motivated MS is to sell. If they forecast a downward slide long term with the Xbox One failing to replace dwindling 360 revenue they might be happy to sell it rather cheaply to get it off the books. They might look back and say "Since we've started the brand we've lost more than we've ever made, so if you pay us the difference so we break even on the whole venture it's a deal." That might be like 4-5 Billion USD.

Think about when Disney bought Star Wars. Lucas sold it for what seemed like a shockingly low amount given the brand felt effectively priceless. But he was just interested in divesting himself of the property so someone else could do something with it. Ironically, selling Xbox may be one of the few ways to win back a lot of alienated gamers. A customer service orientate business like Amazon could rehabilitate the image, instill confidence and carry on without the "Micro$haft" baggage in the same way a new JJ Abrhams Star Wars movie might entice people burned by the Lucas prequels.

Bah! Netflix to buy the Xbox brand and turn it into a big remote control for streaming films and games. The end. :devilish:
 
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