NVIDIA Kepler speculation thread

At the time of the GTX 680, yields were not "great." They were however reasonably acceptable. Obviously, they will continue to improve with time, and unless your yields are already 100%, higher is always better.

Making a statement like "Nvidia really would have liked better yields at launch" is meaningless. They are a for profit business, of course they want to make as much money as possible as quickly as possible.
 
A1xLLcqAgt0qc2RyMz0y: Well, Charlie had interpreted "lower than expected" as "terrible". And you are saying thtat "lower than expected" means:

You are mixing quotes from two different quarterly conference calls.

TSMC 28nm Yields are:

2012Q4 - "lower than expected"
2013Q1 - "great"
 
As for the Big-K, it is not necessary at this point in time as the GK104 currently handles the best AMD has to offer. Why waste wafers on it at this point in time. When wafer supply improves and nVidia can fill all the outstanding demand for current products then the Big-K will be produced.

Yeah, right.
Ask all those owners of supercomputers that are waiting to include some amounts of the cards in their clusters.
The above claim is not serious since NV leaves the entire professional market with something that is 2-3 years old already.
If they could launch GK100, they would have done it. :)
 
Yeah, right.
Ask all those owners of supercomputers that are waiting to include some amounts of the cards in their clusters.

Why? They seems perfectly happy that Kepler will arrive earlier than the 'plan-of-record commitment'.

ORNL said:
The second phase of the upgrade will begin in the fall of 2012 when the 960 Fermi accelerators will be removed and 14,592 of Titan’s nodes, 78 percent of the total compute nodes, will be upgraded by adding NVIDIA “Kepler” GPU application accelerators with 6 gigabytes of high speed directly attached memory. We expect the Kepler-accelerated nodes to be available for users in early CY2013. This is well in advance of the plan-of-record commitment to place the Kepler-accelerated nodes into production use by January 1, 2014.

Source

The above claim is not serious since NV leaves the entire professional market with something that is 2-3 years old already.

That is a problem how? Wait, you think companies upgrade their workstations every year so they can brag about bigger GPU e-peen?

If they could launch GK100, they would have done it. :)
Yeah, same thing can be said with HD 7990, desktop Trinity, Ivy Bridge E, Windows on Arm tablets, Cinema 2 Ruby Demo...
 
The prices- 599 CNY for the DDR3 version means 95 USD, 699 CNY for the GDDR5 version means 110 USD.
Somehow 95 USD is on the high side for such a card with so slow memory (the gap in bandwidth is just... from 28.5 GB/s to 80 GB/s !!! ), given also that Radeon HD 6670 can be had for 60 USD, and HD 6770 for just 80 USD.

In any case, NV marketing is quite cool. :LOL:

"Channel preffered brand/ driver quality" :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A bit more from that same Q&A:
With respect to margins, the reason why margins are great on Kepler is because it's a really efficient GPU. It's higher performance, it's lower power and for every performance level, it's also very efficient in terms of die size. And if that's the case, then our margins would lift. It is the most efficient architecture we've ever done and certainly relative to Fermi, our last-generation GPU, Kepler is much more efficient. And as you know, efficiency drives productivity, and in this particular case, productivity is margins. And so I expect that the more Kepler we ship, the higher our margins would lift. And so the really big focus for us is just to continue to ship as many Keplers as we can.
He wouldn't be able to say this if the yields on Kepler were terrible. I would also tend to expect that it is somewhat unlikely that Kepler will make for so large a portion of their revenue at this point in the game that it will make all that much difference on their margins just yet. But we'll see.
 
He wouldn't be able to say this if the yields on Kepler were terrible. I would also tend to expect that it is somewhat unlikely that Kepler will make for so large a portion of their revenue at this point in the game that it will make all that much difference on their margins just yet. But we'll see.

At present, everything is out of stock at both newegg (out of 18 !!! nothing) and hardwareversand (ok, here you have a single card available for dispatch, out of 14 !!! ). You have some 670s which also points out to stockpiling of chips with worse characteristics, salvage too much.

Don't forget they are making +200$ pure profit out of every single videocard they sell. That's on top of the standard price of 300$ which has a calculated profit in it too.

So, even with lower than expected yields, the price difference offsets it and they would report better margins.
 
If you follow the American media, with their insistence to present both side of the story, you'd think that creationism and non-global warming are controversial but quite well accepted. However if you look at the scientific community, they are considered totally fringe theories. The former probably less than 0.1%, the latter a bit higher. While there are disagreements about particulars (as should be the case in any scientific framework), the central tenet is not in dispute.

Whenever I see these discussions about yield and process, I get that same feeling. Somehow a raging wing-nut has been able to convince a very significant faction that yield is largely under control of the fabless design house, that there are major differences between different fabless companies in D0 at the same fab, that there are large fabless companies in existence who throw a GDS2 file over the wall with little interaction with the fab, that TSMC would let an unmanufacturable GDS2 file slip through its extensive battery of acceptance checks, hell, just the fact itself that yields are a controversial issue that's worth millions of page clicks is just simply weird.

If anybody would advance these kind of conspiracy theories at a conference of experts, he'd be laughed out of the room.

Here's how things go instead: 'I heard the yield for process X are pretty low.' - 'Hmm, let's hope TSMC fixes this soon, because we are ready ship.' That's about it.

Take your typical small or mid-sized fabless company with COT flow. They send test chips on multi-project shuttles to the fan. They have monthly review meetings with TSMC. They have technical meetings with TSMC on a weekly based if all is going well and have very close cooperation whenever issues pop up. When a company sees a flaw in its way of working in their previous project, they sure as hell fix that for the next project.

So I'm asking you skeptics: if this is the way *any* mildly (or not) successful company that I've worked for operates, do you guys honestly believe the drivel that you read about one of the most successful fabless companies in existence ignoring all of that? I understand emotional attachment to one brand or the other, but the willingness to throw away just plain common sense with it really astounds me.

Look at UniversalTruth (a well chosen name if there ever was one) just as a example: he grudgingly is willing to accept that GF100A may have had a yield of not 2% but maybe 20%. I have no idea what his qualifications are, but 20% is shockingly bad for a process that was nicely on track to be one of the most successful ever by the time that chip went on to production. A 520+ mm2 chip is very large, but whenever Nvidia announces a product like that you read a ton of dismissive comments about 'they will never be able to produce this'. Of course, they can, it's a simply matter of fitting numbers in a model that has worked for 40 years. With 40nm what it was in 2010, it should be a piece of cake to yield GF100s at 60% or more.

I see conf call statements saying revenue/margin/whatever is a bit lower due to lower than expected yields. A totally pedestrian explanation about how financial results came to be, yet that gets converted into 'Nvidia shifts blame to TSMC.' They said in May 2010, 'results are better than expected due to yields coming in above expectations'. Can you at least be consistent and write 'Nvidia reserves seat in heaven for TSMC'? Nope, you get 'they are lying.' Just look 1 page back and see how history repeats itself.

Why all these whacky conspiracy theories? What does Nvidia have to gain by not telling the truth about the operational side of their business? The amount of hoops you have to go through to make the universe fit your viewpoint is so much more convoluted compared to what's stated publicly. I understand that an article called 'TSMC yields below expectations' will attract not as much eyeballs as 'raging incompetence at Nvidia', but this willingness of people to run with it?

Studies have shown that most supporters of any particular political party, when faced with hard evidence of a fact that doesn't match their world view, won't be convinced but simply tune out, ignore that fact, dig in deeper and resent whoever reports it. I'm pretty sure the same thing is at work here.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
At present, everything is out of stock at both newegg (out of 18 !!! nothing)

There was stock of the GTX680 over the weekend at Newegg. Demand is very high so if you sit on your hands (and whine like you do so often) then you won't get one. And since you aren't even actually looking for one to buy you of course then won't get one.

Cry all you want but the GTX680 is one hot item to buy with demand outstripping supply. And Nvidia has already stated the they are currently selling actual GTX680's at a 60% higher clip than the GTX580 at this point in the current release cycle (5 weeks).

And in the future when the GTX680 remains in stock we can all expect to hear you whine that no one wants the GTX680 because it remains in stock.
 
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5908/origin-pc-announces-eon15s-and-eon17s-with-geforce-gtx-680m

The big news is a new GTX 680M GPU based on a higher performing Kepler core. NVIDIA has asked us to hold off on providing the full details of the GTX 680M until the embargo lifts later today, so we’ll just stick to what Origin has disclosed: you get 1344 CUDA cores and 4GB of GDDR5 memory.

It's no mistake, Anandtech also says 1344 CUDA cores. Looks like everyone is wrong about the GTX 680M.
 
How low it will be clocked then? I mean, 100W for the whole MXM module should be the max.
And still, it just sounds strange, 670 & 675 are GF114s, and 680 is suddenly almost fullblown GK104? The performance delta between those should be sick, even though the numbering suggests something else.
 


qS7Jw.jpg


CyjB3.jpg
 
Back
Top