HTML5 on consoles

[patsu]

LOOT Entertainment on Demand (Ameratsu Experience) in PS Home:

Interesting, the video wall has a menu overlay for me to stream different clips on demand. Other Home video screens are fixed to one video.

This is pretty close to what I want. What's missing is the ability to "summon" my TV (or even the entire yacht) to any Home space.

It doesn't quite confirm HTML5 embedding in Home yet. Because the menu screen is fixed, they can also implement the feature in regular LUA.

With generic web browsing, Home and MMO, I really hope Sony has an additional module to beef up the memory for PS3.

 

[jeff_rigby]

LOOT Entertainment on Demand (Ameratsu Experience) in PS Home:

Interesting, the video wall has a menu overlay for me to stream different clips on demand. Other Home video screens are fixed to one video.

This is pretty close to what I want. What's missing is the ability to "summon" my TV (or even the entire yacht) to any Home space.

It doesn't quite confirm HTML5 embedding in Home yet. Because the menu screen is fixed, they can also implement the feature in regular LUA.

With generic web browsing, Home and MMO, I really hope Sony has an additional module to beef up the memory for PS3.

OK tie Home into the following:

The tools in the PS3 as of 3.50 and 3.55 are:

Confirmed:
1) Adaptive streaming and DRM enabled H.264 codec optimized for the cell
2) Webkit HTML5 javascript engine (part of an on-going port of webkit)

Not Confirmed but necessary for the features in XMB Web applications
3) Adobe Air 2.5 for TV or some Flash lite product tying Adobe Access (DRM management tool) and basic support for Javascript from/to the XMB for XMB applications.

Sony is following a timetable for features and is apparently on-track as seen in multiple software products taking advantage of tools developed. Portal 2 is coming next year and it will have a mini-web browser and other web support built in or perhaps using tools provided by a finished Webkit port.

Not confirmed but timing would seem to indicate that Home is taking advantage of 1 & 2 above. The Loot Home personal space now has a TV screen called EOD (Entertainment on Demand) that has several of the Bravia Internet Video applications. What is seen can be implemented with just the Home client but becomes MUCH easier when calling the above tools. Home Client 1.4 and 1.41 would have the hooks for Home developers to use the tools in the PS3 as of 3.5 and 3.55.

In the Mall and perhaps elsewhere is a video tutorial about how to use Home. This is another thing that is coming; tutorials and explanation of features of Sony products. With #1 above this becomes seamlessly available and with support for Flash 3.5 streams (#3) commercials are now inter-spaced within tutorials and videos.

Playstation apps for iphone and Android to be available soon. It might tie into the Webkit Javascript engine ported to the PS3 as of Firmware 3.5 and the move from Lithium to Jive for forum support. Jive is big on javascript APIs to allow the exchange of information between platforms and software products.

The Playstation forums are transitioning from Lithium over to Jive. All of the posts will transfer but you will loose private messages. New forum, new layout, new home. Phase 1 (the transition) will be happening soon.

Starting tonight and through the weekend, the PlayStation forums will be going through a metamorphosis. The forums are getting moved to another platform, so there will be a nice fresh look, a slight change to navigation, but all the threads and posts should exist as they are now. UPDATE: The forums should complete their transition on Tuesday.

http://www.jivesoftware.com/apps

Jive Apps Market

Making apps easily available and consumable by your community changes the game. Now you can choose what functionality you need, and every user in your enterprise can do the same.

The Jive Apps Market also heralds the future global IT organizations—instead of babysitting painful, costly upgrades they’ll be developing small-footprint apps that deliver massively compelling user experiences, quickly. And users will be free to tailor their Jive environment to produce what matters to them.

Javascript apps, can now work with a Netfront browser @1080P and will eventually work with a PS3 webkit browser to enable lots of new abilities - Cloud computing. With Webkit HTML5 javascript now in the PS3, usable from the XMB and other Sony software running on the PS3 like Home we should see tie-ins to Jive from other Software on the PS3.

Reading the Jive site, the company has APIs that allow exchange of information from, for instance "MS Office", to the site and back. The Cloud computing example is the exchange of information and Media between platforms and software programs. I expect this means our Forum software will allow private as well as public exchange of media from-to the PS3 and other Sony products. We will no longer have to use just Facebook or Picassa 3.

For Shifty; We will not be able to modify the apps just choose to use them and Home developers like EA can choose to include these apps in Home Sites to EASILY allow an exchange of information and social networking.

 

[jeff_rigby]

LOOT Entertainment on Demand (Ameratsu Experience) in PS Home:

This is pretty close to what I want. What's missing is the ability to "summon" the entire yacht to any Home space.

So you want to sail your yacht into the first home space on the Marina, dock and enjoy a Margarita at the Yacht club after mooring your boat. <grin>.

I expected a tie in to Google earth on the other side of the wall for EOD, the world map. Disappointing, that would have confirmed HTML5 and Flash .

There are some Flash 10 games and applications like Piano and Flash Chess that if Air is in the PS3 could be called by the Home client for personal spaces. The recent developer notes for Home client 1.4 were mentioning memory savings for use by Home sites. With virtual memory a swap out of parts of Home for a Piano or Chess table when they are activated is doable. An API to do this for javascript could be applied to Flash games....

I'm sure you have seen the implications in my last two posts and might now start to remember the video presentation of Home features before it was released. I believe everything in that video is doable using the tools now in the PS3 and the new Jive Forum.


Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCWYG2syuhI&feature=related

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8ore7INF4Q&feature=related

 

[makattack]

Playstation apps for iphone and Android to be available soon. It might tie into the Webkit Javascript engine ported to the PS3 as of Firmware 3.5 and the move from Lithium to Jive for forum support. Jive is big on javascript APIs to allow the exchange of information between platforms and software products.

Eh?!? You do realize this is a PSN app. that is essentially like the many other iPhone and Android apps that allow you do see your trophies/achievements, friends online activity, etc?

All it does is connect to either the PSN website or the Microsoft Live websites to pull that data... mostly from RSS feeds or via. web services calls.

Only, this is an official app... and will most likely be free. I seriously doubt this app will connect directly to anyones PS3 -- unless that functionality gets implemented in PSN.

An example of an existing app written by a third party: http://www.androidcentral.com/quick-app-ps3-friends

Details:
http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010...p-coming-soon-to-iphone-and-android-handsets/

In version 1.0 you’ll be able to:
Check out your PlayStation Network trophies and keep up to date with your friends’ games and online status.
Discover all the latest games, news and hardware for your PlayStation 3, PSP and PlayStation 2.
Read all the announcements on the European PlayStation.Blog.
Share your favourite products or news with your friends on Facebook, Twitter or via e-mail.
The first version (1.0) will be available in the following countries: UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, and The Netherlands.
We are already working on the next version that will support most SCEE countries and languages, and will also let you comment on PlayStation.Blog.
There are tons more features we are planning to bring to this app in the next few months so keep an eye on the PlayStation.Blog for further announcements early next year.

 

[patsu]

This is pretty close to what I want. What's missing is the ability to "summon" my TV (or even the entire yacht) to any Home space.

So you want to sail your yacht into the first home space on the Marina, dock and enjoy a Margarita at the Yacht club after mooring your boat. <grin>.

Yes, something like that but more imaginative:

The Irem Square Home Space in HK does it best: ^_^

It's a virtual world after all. In the above video (HK Central Plaza), Home users can enter the Irem space via the space ship.

Too bad most people don't know how awesome Home can be... and the experience is hindered by load time. Imagine that space ship as a trophy/achievement/award that can be summoned to any Home Space... ;-)

[EDIT: They can also use similar presentation technique to promote game launching in Home, the high profile arrival and presentation of a game party object (e.g., Irem space ship) announces to everyone that someone in the space is soliciting players for his party. If it's an achievement item, it also tell us we are going to join someone who's very good at the game. ^_^]

...Jive...

I took a quick look at their platform. I suspect Sony wants to upgrade to Jive because it's more integrated with their business processes (CRM + Social Media). It may not be related to the client run-time platform, except for the fact that JavaScript is needed for the Web 2.0 experience.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Eh?!? You do realize this is a PSN app. that is essentially like the many other iPhone and Android apps that allow you do see your trophies/achievements, friends online activity, etc?

All it does is connect to either the PSN website or the Microsoft Live websites to pull that data... mostly from RSS feeds or via. web services calls.

Only, this is an official app... and will most likely be free. I seriously doubt this app will connect directly to anyones PS3 -- unless that functionality gets implemented in PSN.

An example of an existing app written by a third party: http://www.androidcentral.com/quick-app-ps3-friends

Details:
http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010...p-coming-soon-to-iphone-and-android-handsets/

In version 1.0 you’ll be able to:
Check out your PlayStation Network trophies and keep up to date with your friends’ games and online status.
Discover all the latest games, news and hardware for your PlayStation 3, PSP and PlayStation 2.
Read all the announcements on the European PlayStation.Blog.
Share your favourite products or news with your friends on Facebook, Twitter or via e-mail.
The first version (1.0) will be available in the following countries: UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, and The Netherlands.
We are already working on the next version that will support most SCEE countries and languages, and will also let you comment on PlayStation.Blog.
There are tons more features we are planning to bring to this app in the next few months so keep an eye on the PlayStation.Blog for further announcements early next year.

Jive SBS Mobile for iPod and mobile/Android phones: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/jive-sbs-mobile/id334929363?mt=8

This IS one of the BIG features that have been planned for the Playstation DIgital Ecosystem and Jeff Rubinstein knew about it 9 months ago.

At the present time it is probably not using the Jive site as it's not up yet. It's interesting that the switch to the new forum will be in multiple phases that add new features, same with Phones. This is the update to the forums mentioned by Jeff Rubinstein 9 months ago just after the previous update to the forums.

Jive SBS ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jive_SBS

Jive SBS, or "Social Business Software" (formerly known as Clearspace) is a commercial Java EE-based Enterprise 2.0 collaboration and knowledge management tool produced by Jive Software. It was first released as "Clearspace" in 2006, and was renamed SBS in March 2009.[2]

Jive SBS integrates the functionality of online communities, microblogging, social networking, discussion forums, blogs, wikis, and IM under one unified user interface. From a user perspective, input is fairly format-agnostic as collaborative content placed into any system (blog, wiki, documentation, etc) can later be retrieved through use of a common search interface. Other features include RSS capability, email integration, a reputation and reward system for participation, personal user profiles, JAX-WS web service interoperability, and integration with the Spring framework.

http://www.giatalks.com/2010/03/jive-sbs-design-practices-part-1/

The PSN forums are now locked for the transfer to Jive Today 12/21/2010.

Google is behind in updates to support larger platforms (Gingerbread - Tablets) as well as a WebGL version of Chrome. This might have thrown off the Sony timetable. In recent news Google has asked CES presenters of Google TV to be low key. IT is rumored that Google is going to revisit the Google TV software and rework it. The recent purchase of Widevine for the DRM management might be part of the rework.

 

[patsu]

Yeah well…

Other features include RSS capability, email integration, a reputation and reward system for participation, personal user profiles, JAX-WS web service interoperability, and integration with the Spring framework.

I have been complaining 'bout the fragmented view and treatment of their customers. Something like this would help to unify or at least organize their CRM effort online and in-game. They are beta testing Playstation Rewards at the moment. The marketing program probably ties in with the Jive technical platform. That's why they needed a beta for a loyalty program (I was wondering ^_^).

In other words, this thing will likely run on assorted web browsers, cell phones and of course Playstation devices. With JavaScript core and a decent HTML browser, I wouldn't be surprised if our PSN user profiles integrate with the Jive backend, directly accessible from XMB some day.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Yeah well…



I have been complaining 'bout the fragmented view and treatment of their customers. Something like this would help to unify or at least organize their CRM effort online and in-game. They are beta testing Playstation Rewards at the moment. The marketing program probably ties in with the Jive technical platform. That's why they needed a beta for a loyalty program (I was wondering ^_^).

In other words, this thing will likely run on assorted web browsers, cell phones and of course Playstation devices. With JavaScript core and a decent HTML browser, I wouldn't be surprised if our PSN user profiles integrate with the Jive backend, directly accessible from XMB some day.

Suppose documentation as video tutorials will be implemented with Jive and available from the XMB or programs/games via a help option. Information from Jive on the XMB and in game. Faster Trophy syncing, Configurable and larger Friends lists integrated with Jive.

Email, chat, XGC? Change the framework for the XMB slightly and multiple options are available and easily configurable via Java on the Jive end and Javascript on the PS3 end. I expect soon Sony can push changes like Netflix changes it's UI without a firmware update.

Hmmmm....One of the issues I saw in multiple (thousands available) IPTV sites and APP favorite links to web sites might be addressed by having user choice over what shows on the XMB under Video or TV using local Javascript files. These would be created with options chosen while on-line to Jive. This might explain Bravia Internet not yet available.......

Cloud computing => more features yet ever more dependent on Sony. I would guess that low end hardware platforms would benefit greatly by what I described above.

EASIER is the key here...all this was doable with native language programs on the PS3 and Java on Servers but we will now (If speculation is correct) have one source of "pushed" information into the PS3 and an easier way to customize the display on the XMB.

Taking Facebook one step further, Grandparents can have pictures of Grandchildren pushed to a folder on the PS3 by their children. This would simplify viewing enough that even my mother could/would benefit. PSN Plus would do this automatically like it does updates....yet another reason to subscribe and a larger base of income for Sony. The PS3 theme could be a designated picture from the folder or a window on the XMB could have scrolling pictures from that folder at turn-on.

I can also see an Apps market in this locked to Sony because the services supplied are from Sony.

All this speculation is doable but some requires changes to the PS3 OS and XMB screen that will need to be done anyway to support a Webkit. So phased implementation with changes to the XMB Friends and Options/choices under XMB for Music, Pictures and Videos first.

 

[patsu]

Where did you get these info ? ^_^

 

[jeff_rigby]

Where did you get these info ? ^_^

It's a logical extension of what is known. Speculation......It's what I would do with the tools in the PS3 and the Jive Forum given a description of the Jive features.

You touched on it but didn't go down the road far enough. "I wouldn't be surprised if our PSN user profiles integrate with the Jive backend, directly accessible from XMB some day." Change "user profiles" to Pictures, IPTV choices etc.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There's a problem with this theory. The Java engine is overhead on every application. Moving voice chat etc. onto Java means eating into resources which are already limited. A far more efficient service would be to roll out Sony's own libs.

That said, by account Sony's current libs are grossly inefficient memory hogs anyway, and if friends list and chat could all be rolled into the same platform, it might be cheaper then loading up those features individually and provide a common experience. It'd still be a waste of resources, but potentially an improvement on the current systems. Really though, for consoles the networking side should be as streamlined and efficient as possible, with the tighest code and most frugle use of resources so these features don't intrude too heavily into the game resources, and that's a job for code ninjas and low-level coding.

 

[jeff_rigby]

There's a problem with this theory. The Java engine is overhead on every application. Moving voice chat etc. onto Java means eating into resources which are already limited. A far more efficient service would be to roll out Sony's own libs.

That said, by account Sony's current libs are grossly inefficient memory hogs anyway, and if friends list and chat could all be rolled into the same platform, it might be cheaper then loading up those features individually and provide a common experience. It'd still be a waste of resources, but potentially an improvement on the current systems. Really though, for consoles the networking side should be as streamlined and efficient as possible, with the tighest code and most frugle use of resources so these features don't intrude too heavily into the game resources, and that's a job for code ninjas and low-level coding.

Change Java to Javascript in the PS3. Yes, overhead in a Javascript engine (about 7 megs) would be an issue. That engine is OpenGL so display performance is not an issue. For the most part I am talking only the XMB which should not have a memory issue. Edit: libraries called would still be the same in either case, native language or javascript.

The large size "memory hog" issues with PS3 programs may be due to libraries included in the programs rather than being called as needed. This has or will be changing during the webkit port. Is this what you meant?

"Moving voice chat etc. onto Java means eating into resources which are already limited. A far more efficient service would be to roll out Sony's own libs.issue." I should have made it clearer that the choices listed were in order of probability with the "?" indicating doubt on feasability for the last choice XGC. As I see it, XGC would still have to be implemented by the Game developer and/or a portion of GDDR3 Video memory could be used for the routines with a Sony supplied server. This could already be a part of SDK releases and in newer games waiting for not supported older games to roll out of popularity.

We can have a "cloud computing" word processor from the XMB using javascript. It would never require more than 7 megs for the engine to implement (plus a small scratchpad/sandbox) no matter how many features are a part of the Word processor. That's just an example. Choice of what works best, native language or Javascript, with ease of implementation will always be a part of the equation.

 

[patsu]

Yap, using JiveSoftware, there is no Java on the client end. The UI is generated on the fly on the server side. On the PS3, it's just another HTML(5) page.

Here's more info on Jive: http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/javaopensource/jive/



It may be easy to confuse Jive/JiveSpace with Jini/JavaSpaces, the latter would likely require a Java/Jini client run-time. But Jive, JiveSpace, JiveSoftware are enterprise server technologies. They won't run on the PS3.

What jeff_rigsby meant above is: Since recent apps (VUDU, NetFlix, Hulu Plus) use a thin client approach, Sony can do the same via the Jive platform. Meaning they can change the features, look & feel without applying firmware update. I don't know if they will apply to interactive applications like video chat though.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Yap, using JiveSoftware, there is no Java on the client end. The UI is generated on the fly on the server side. On the PS3, it's just another HTML(5) page.

Here's more info on Jive: http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/javaopensource/jive/

It may be easy to confuse Jive/JiveSpace with Jini/JavaSpaces, the latter would likely involve a Java/Jini client run-time. But Jive, JiveSpace, JiveSoftware are enterprise server technologies. They won't run on the PS3.

What jeff_rigsby meant above is: Since recent apps (VUDU, NetFlix, Hulu Plus) use a thin client approach, Sony can do the same via the Jive platform. Meaning they can change the features, look & feel without applying firmware update. I don't know if they will apply to interactive applications like video chat though.

Well, video chat is seen in browsers.....in Air 2.5 too. So it's doable. Big missing piece is echo cancellation and that's not in Air, it's part of Flash 10.1 in the browser only.

The forum from the Netfront browser would of course use HTML4 and an abbreviated javascript. From the XMB the Webkit javascript port could be used for HTML(5).

Reading your link, the database functions seem like they might be faster (Trophy Sync). SO larger friends lists, grouping....multiple requests/suggestions including format for information display all doable for Friends. Real email with a mini-editor doable, cut and paste and reading Word files doable.

From what I've been hearing, on Jive we can have personal web pages, "Owned" forum threads with total editing and permissions authority by the author, friends can be designated and given permissions and the thread can be private (friends only) or public with write permission assignable.

Firmware 3.5, support for Flash server 3.5 streams and 3.55 to add XMB mods to display HTML5 and work with the "move" as an Air Mouse...possible

 

[patsu]

Video chat app can be embedded in browser, but the latter is only a container (e.g., to serve an applet, or nested in some HTML context).

A pure video chat module does not really need a browser. It can be peer to peer, like the one already in XMB today.

 

[patsu]

NetFlix talks about HTML5 and video tag (Why they have not used it yet):
http://techblog.netflix.com/2010/12/html5-and-video-streaming.html

 

[jeff_rigby]

NetFlix talks about HTML5 and video tag (Why they have not used it yet):
http://techblog.netflix.com/2010/12/html5-and-video-streaming.html

Good link. It echoes Adobe Air's explanation but more informative.

 

[jeff_rigby]

LOOT Entertainment on Demand (Ameratsu Experience) in PS Home:

Interesting, the video wall has a menu overlay for me to stream different clips on demand. Other Home video screens are fixed to one video.

This is pretty close to what I want. What's missing is the ability to "summon" my TV (or even the entire yacht) to any Home space.

It doesn't quite confirm HTML5 embedding in Home yet. Because the menu screen is fixed, they can also implement the feature in regular LUA.

With generic web browsing, Home and MMO, I really hope Sony has an additional module to beef up the memory for PS3.

I didn't mention that in the video, for the video, both the Home Lua engine and the Javascript engine would be loaded and running. I purchased the Loot Ameratsu Experience and I didn't see any issues with both running. :smile: This might support it wasn't being supported by javascript or that having multiple engines running will not be an issue.

That the application allows the EOD to run while moving around the boat might be the programmers making a statement or it is totally independent and allowing it to run (for others to use) while you are elsewhere is easy to implement (it's javascript and independent of Lua).

 

[patsu]

The EOD trailer only shows Home running. It's unclear if JavaScript is needed for the simple overlay (Probably overkill). The Home LUA run-time should be able to call the same video plugin as the PS3 web browser.

 

[jeff_rigby]

The EOD trailer only shows Home running. It's unclear if JavaScript is needed for the simple overlay (Probably overkill). The Home LUA run-time should be able to call the same video plugin as the PS3 web browser.

Just thought of something. If HTML5 is used for some of the categories on the XMB then most of the work will have been done to allow Widgets on the XMB screen.

Is that next?