'Backpedaling' sounds about right. Sounds like the Elite is being dropped as such and the Pro renamed the Elite and given a larger HDD, rather than the Pro being dropped.
Xbox 360 Pro SKU EOL
- Thread starter AzBat
- Start date
DuckThor Evil
Legend
Even the Pro had an HD AV cable previously though, so as far as cables go the new Elite is less than the old Pro and the Pro already had 60GB HDD which is enough for quite a lot of content and installs. 60GB extra HDD is still more valuable than getting a separate HDMI cable, but it's still a pity if they really are dropping the component.
Near confirmation from Kotaku who got ahold of a flyer from Meijer's showing 299 Elite price cut. The flyer is out August 30 so, wont be long.
I guess it's closer to final that MS will go into fall with 199/299 against 299 PS3 slim. On the surface a matchup that would seem to favor PS3 if MS doesnt do any further reductions, we'll see.
I guess it's closer to final that MS will go into fall with 199/299 against 299 PS3 slim. On the surface a matchup that would seem to favor PS3 if MS doesnt do any further reductions, we'll see.
AFAIK we do not have any leaked PS3 slim prices for the US yet, or do we?
No, but I'm assuming.
The Ars mole said the PS3 will get a price cut with the slim. He just didn't say how much. So it will be either 349 or 299. I think 299.
Yeah, it will probably be one of those and you may very well be right.
Communicating a $100 price drop do after all have a stronger impact, if Sony seriously want to start gaining market share in the US.
Still Sony may choose a different route in the US compared to Europe and Japan, different dates for price drop, different prices drops and maybe several consecutive price drops instead of just one. We will probably find out within a week.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
Why would the 199/299 v 299 match-up favor the PS3?
Do you mean just because of blu-ray?
Do you mean just because of blu-ray?
More like $299 vs $299, and yeah, blu-ray, free online, even the @#$ wi-fi connector. All the silliness that usually comes out of the 'value comparison' argument will return, and with greater strength -- before you could easily argue that you'd rather have ~$100 in your pocket than whatever 'added value' offered by the PS3. Hell, you don't even have the 'no-HD cables' argument anymore on the 360's side.
We'll probably see the 'value-add' argument shift to $199 arcade vs. $299 PS3, though.
The value of a console is the platform, inclusive of available software and upcoming software consumers want. Value is limited to nerdbox checklist items for general consumers. Just look at the PS2, GCN, and Xbox as good examples of price propositions and features and software and how that played out.
120M people didn't buy a PS2 played DVD's out of the box...
Btw, anyone spotting active 60GB Pro clearance deals?
120M people didn't buy a PS2 played DVD's out of the box...
Btw, anyone spotting active 60GB Pro clearance deals?
The Xbox 360 with a $349 Premium and $280 Core did quite well against the $399 PS3 in the U.S. in 2007 during the holiday season, its comparable probably to a $299 Elite and a $299 PS3 slim. I suspect people who buy the Xbox 360, buy it because of Live and the online userbase advantage to play with their friends. Its not $50 for online vs $0 for the same, in a lot of cases its $50 = play with friends vs $0 and have no friends online. There is no universal value argument at work here.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
I'm sorry, but I think this generation is too far along for a PS3 that is priced equal to the 360 to have any sort of monumental pull. I think game library and what consoles your friends are playing on are far more important now than BR or 'free online'.
I still believe the reason the $199 price point is so important is because that makes the console available to the masses. The masses that have already been exposed to the console through their friends and advertising.
That's why I don't think launching a console at $199 really matters (as the Wii proved at $249), because the library and friends experience don't exist. $199 matters because of everything is gained in the time it takes to get to that price point.
I believe (not sure) that this generation has taken longer to get to $199 than before, but that time really favors the first console launched and doesn't necessarily translate into giving later, more expensive consoles a big boost.
I will say one thing: While I think it's too little too late, I think it's a smart thing for Sony to be paying for the Madden 10 ads with the 'Playstation' blurp at the end. It would benefit them more if it coincided with a price drop to $199. I think one of the biggest untalked about benefits for the 360 (in the US) was getting almost exclusive rights to Madden, funding the Maddenmania parties (or whatever they were called), and changing the most played platform from the PS2 to the 360.
I still believe the reason the $199 price point is so important is because that makes the console available to the masses. The masses that have already been exposed to the console through their friends and advertising.
That's why I don't think launching a console at $199 really matters (as the Wii proved at $249), because the library and friends experience don't exist. $199 matters because of everything is gained in the time it takes to get to that price point.
I believe (not sure) that this generation has taken longer to get to $199 than before, but that time really favors the first console launched and doesn't necessarily translate into giving later, more expensive consoles a big boost.
I will say one thing: While I think it's too little too late, I think it's a smart thing for Sony to be paying for the Madden 10 ads with the 'Playstation' blurp at the end. It would benefit them more if it coincided with a price drop to $199. I think one of the biggest untalked about benefits for the 360 (in the US) was getting almost exclusive rights to Madden, funding the Maddenmania parties (or whatever they were called), and changing the most played platform from the PS2 to the 360.
You're right, of course. The thing about the points you, Joshua and Squilliam use is that they can't be argued against. Add 'controller preference' into the mix. They're all perfectly good reasons to favor one console over another. Essentially, if all your friends are on one console or you like the games more, you're already made your choice.
Which clearly isn't the situation in which the prospective owner hasn't chosen and is looking at two $299 consoles and is trying to figure out which looks like a better deal. In this case the feature list does matter. Are you saying this guy doesn't exist, that by now everyone's made their choice?
How influential is that? In Sept or Oct last year we got data that the average console price was ~$280, which I would guess means that the Pro was the most popular SKU. I could be wrong, and the Elite could be selling a lot more than I thought it was.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
No, not at all. That guy does exist, absolutely. But remember when you are talking about 'that guy' you are not only talking about the guy that meets the specifics listed above but also about the guy who has heard but not necessarily played.
So, yes. Absolutely there is a market for people who don't care about the game library, and who haven't played already on a friend's console, and who haven't heard (and not yet played) from friends about a console.
I just think that market is too small to really make a significant impact. I also think that market of which you speak is most likely to be impacted by the addition of BR in the PS3 which is why my original question was 'Is a 299 to 299 tie going to determine PS3 the winner because of BR?'
I think it probably would, if you look at the specific market we're talking about. I'm just unsure as to the size.
Ehhhh.. I don't know. I haven't looked at how those statistics were collected to make any sort of intelligent decision on it. My gut instinct would be that you are completely wrong and that there are far more arcades in households than anybody here cares to imagine and that the balance then is clearly made up for by Elites.
I also think this latest news (if it's true), about removing the HDMI cables from the Elite and eliminating the Pro is a large mistake.
Then again, I was one of the few on here that trumpeted the Arcade from Day 1 as a brilliant move for MS to get the console cost (and therefore price) down, while others complained about a 'gimped' console. The inclusion of the memory unit and then the following built in memory only made the arcade more attractive.
There's no point now to have a Pro, they have no need to add features to the Elite, but they certainly shouldn't take them away.
Those people who don't favor one game library over another, those people who don't have friends playing one console or the other.. well, I'm not really sure what they even make their purchase decision based upon. But I would think that at that point, BR would be the deciding factor. Again, though, I think that's only a segment of the remaining market.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
I'd counter argue that the arcade was selling a whole lot more and thus dragging down the ASP. And thus not being able to get a good idea of relative sales of Pro vs Elite.
Either way, it's a smart move by MS to reduce the lineup to just 2 SKUs. Especially with a possible move from Sony soon.
I'd imagine they might keep the Pro within spitting distance of whatever price Sony sets for the PS3. And then pricing the arcade into impulse buy territory. Without a high priced Elite sitting around, they can keep claiming that all X360's are cheaper than the PS3.
Regards,
SB
NPDs from the last 3 months
xbox360 --- ps3
175000 127000
175000 131000
240600 164700
u can buy a xbox360 for half the price of a ps3 yet its only outselling by ~45%
not to mention the 'magical'
$199 pricepersonally I believe sony are better off going for a $350 price + then perhaps $300 at novemeber, instead of now $300
I thought it was pretty clear from all the leaked pictures that the Pro is going away and the Elite will stay (at a lower price). Have I been missing something?
Personally I doubt the price of the Arcade will change, I guess that is the only unit they are still subsidizing. The Elite and Pro may have covered some of that cost before, but that may change now that the Elite will go to $299 and that is probably one of the reasons they are downgrading the feature list of the Elite SKU.
I would say in defense of remaining @ $299 is that its going to come down to bundles this holiday season between the Elite and PS3. Its the price out the door with everything which is the important metric for the core market, and the games on demand pre-install gives them the key advantage here in that they can be absolutely sure they can bundle whichever games they want without having them flood the used game market. This is extremely valuable for them, and say for example if they create a core bundle of Halo: ODST (makes people buy Halo 3 too) Forza 3 and say one other third party game they can keep the family bundle with the Arcade and target the two different major market segments.
I wonder given rumours of a bigger HDD, if they are likely to introduce an uopgrade elite 240GB or 360GB or simply upgrade the external HDD?
I wonder given rumours of a bigger HDD, if they are likely to introduce an uopgrade elite 240GB or 360GB or simply upgrade the external HDD?
Personally I don't see MS doing anything more than just 2 skus(Arcade & Elite) and only with 512mb & 120gb respectively. I also don't see them dropping the price before Xmas, just adding games for more value. I could see a spring refresh with a cheaper price or upgraded hdd for the Elite, but not both. The only unknown is how Sony prices the PS3 for the Holidays. If they really are going with a $299 system, then I could see them dropping the Elite $20 or so, but not until late October/early November.
Tommy McClain
Tommy McClain
NPDs from the last 3 months
xbox360 --- ps3
175000 127000
175000 131000
240600 164700
u can buy a xbox360 for half the price of a ps3 yet its only outselling by ~45%
not to mention the 'magical'
personally I believe sony are better off going for a $350 price + then perhaps $300 at novemeber, instead of now $300
"only"?
360 is only console to have YOY growth and continues to pull away from PS3 in NA
Of course you have to ignore that fact the 360 had a price drop and the PS3 did not, but whatever works.
