3D Gaming*
- Thread starter Arwin
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For that blinking stuff I'd prefer like, 100Hz... which requires 200Hz from the TV. But even in that case it wouldn't nearly be as good for our eyes as any non-shutter solution.
Not to mention that active glasses need either a cable or batteries...
Not to mention that active glasses need either a cable or batteries...
Lithium Ion button cells are pretty light.
You are aware that RealD's system (including their cinema one) is blinking right? (It alternates polarities in a frame sequential manner.) IMO if you want a frame parallel stereoscopic display you will be stuck with dual projector setups for the coming years.
There isn't really an alternative to frame sequential for flat displays ... you can present two images at the same time by interleaving the two, but the pixel grid will undoubtedly be annoying (theoretically you could avoid the gaps but it would require some pretty fancy array optics, HOEs probably, and I have heard of no one who even tried it) and the resolution will be halved (and the HD hype is still too fresh to really make halving the resolution something which will go down well).
You are aware that RealD's system (including their cinema one) is blinking right? (It alternates polarities in a frame sequential manner.) IMO if you want a frame parallel stereoscopic display you will be stuck with dual projector setups for the coming years.
There isn't really an alternative to frame sequential for flat displays ... you can present two images at the same time by interleaving the two, but the pixel grid will undoubtedly be annoying (theoretically you could avoid the gaps but it would require some pretty fancy array optics, HOEs probably, and I have heard of no one who even tried it) and the resolution will be halved (and the HD hype is still too fresh to really make halving the resolution something which will go down well).
Sony has 7 Bravia TVs with 240 Hz in their current line, I just checked. I expect their predecessors will be used for the shutter glasses.
It may be the case that screens with lower update frequencies will require interlaced solutions to avoid eye strain and headaches.
I just read an article in a local newspaper where they commented the 3D TV push at CES. They noted that it took HD TV about 10 years to grow big. I think cost was one of the main reasons why it took that long. I think 3D can grow faster than that if they can get down to main stream prices faster.
The announced 3D channels will certainly help as well link and link. I also think there will be 3D cameras for consumers wihtin 4-5 years. Will be really interesting to see what the market look like 2-3 years from now.
On Sonys 3D homepage I noticed that the games they showed at the content page included: MLB The Show, Motorstorm and GT5. Maybe we could expect these games to be patched to output 3D in the fall? Motorstorm and GT5 have already been shown in 3D so it may be a possibility.
One thing I´ve been wondering about is how sensitive the eyes are to aliasing when looking at a stereoscopic 3D image. The eyes will see two different images with aliasing at different places.
Will these images be blended with each other in the brain and the aliasing will be blured? i.e. will 3D images need less AA than a mono image where both eyes focus on the same edges with the same aliasing. If someone gets the oppurtunity to try out 3D gaming at some conference or game show it would be really interesting to hear what happens if one close one eye and study the quality of one image at a time to see if they cheat with the quality of AA or anything else like AF or motion blur.
The announced 3D channels will certainly help as well link and link. I also think there will be 3D cameras for consumers wihtin 4-5 years. Will be really interesting to see what the market look like 2-3 years from now.
On Sonys 3D homepage I noticed that the games they showed at the content page included: MLB The Show, Motorstorm and GT5. Maybe we could expect these games to be patched to output 3D in the fall? Motorstorm and GT5 have already been shown in 3D so it may be a possibility.
One thing I´ve been wondering about is how sensitive the eyes are to aliasing when looking at a stereoscopic 3D image. The eyes will see two different images with aliasing at different places.
Will these images be blended with each other in the brain and the aliasing will be blured? i.e. will 3D images need less AA than a mono image where both eyes focus on the same edges with the same aliasing. If someone gets the oppurtunity to try out 3D gaming at some conference or game show it would be really interesting to hear what happens if one close one eye and study the quality of one image at a time to see if they cheat with the quality of AA or anything else like AF or motion blur.
Well, a quick glance over the CES 2010 news seems to be that every TV manufacturer is using 60Hz shutter glasses for their 3D solutions. A decade-old technology that's almost guaranteed to cause headaches. Great... I guess 2010 isn't really going to be the year of 3D at home after all.
grandmaster
Veteran
Interestingly IGN reports that the GT5 demo was significantly blurrier than the actual game, again suggesting two lower resolution images crammed into the conventional 60Hz output. Avatar was showcased as a PS3 3D game and this uses the same technique (amongst others).
Where do you get 60Hz? Sony at least is touting 240Hz tv's for 3d and that would imply 120 frames for each eye per second.
Do you mean interlaced?
Lots of press materials mention 60Hz; other than Sony, though, like Samsung, Panasonic, LG.
Also, for LCDs, going higher then 60/60Hz isn't as easy because of the way the screen works. I wouldn't bet that the shutter glasses can work at 120/120Hz.
By the way, couldn't Dolby's hue-based color filtering separation be adaptable for TVs? Or do they need more precise color calibration for that?
Also, for LCDs, going higher then 60/60Hz isn't as easy because of the way the screen works. I wouldn't bet that the shutter glasses can work at 120/120Hz.
By the way, couldn't Dolby's hue-based color filtering separation be adaptable for TVs? Or do they need more precise color calibration for that?
That sounds pretty strange, since all major TV manufacturers now have 240 Hz lcd displays and seems to be using them for demonstrating 3D content.
Do you have a link handy because I have failed find anyone talking explicitly about the shutter glasses refresh rate.
grandmaster
Veteran
Here's one, specifically in relation to PS3 3D: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/105/1058899p1.html
I'll try to find them again; mostly I've been browsing Engadget, and went to the Panasonic 3D website here: www.panasonic.com/3d
I guess most of the stuff was on engadget and maybe one of the press releases mentioned 60Hz shutter glasses?
Anyway, irregardless of the refresh rate, shutter glasses will make both of your eyes watch darkness half the time. In this way they'll always be worse then polarized or color filtering passive glasses.
I guess most of the stuff was on engadget and maybe one of the press releases mentioned 60Hz shutter glasses?
Anyway, irregardless of the refresh rate, shutter glasses will make both of your eyes watch darkness half the time. In this way they'll always be worse then polarized or color filtering passive glasses.
Polarized glasses filter out half the light too, as do coloured glasses. Watching Avatar was quite hard, espercially in the night scene, as it was sooooo dark! 3D TV will be much better.
You'd have to use two sets of RGB LEDs with different spectra for backlighting, but RGB LED emission spectrums are not exactly lines (unlike lasers). You could fit them with color filters but it's going to reduce your efficiency.
Hard to say without running the numbers.
Love_In_Rio
Veteran
From reviews and opinions what i have gathered about Avatar is that people prefered it with Dolby 3d system to Reald polarized or shuttered active, being the last one the worst.
Thanks, as they used shutter glasses they are not using an interlaced signal. Shame he didn´t ask about the shutter glasses frame rate.
So they had noticably toned down the image quality of GT5 somewhat, shame he did not get into more spcifics how that was done, but at least he did not complain about the frame rate. :smile:
Most 3D cinemas use single projector systems ... unless you went to an IMAX digital cinema I'm pretty sure you were watching darkness with one eye half the time watching Avatar as well.
Only at 72 Hz per eye too, rather than 120 Hz.
The two are quite not the same though... Seeing half the light is easy to compensate with a brighter image, and most LCDs/plasmas can do that already.
But if you shutter to darkness completely, adding more brightness will only make the flickering worse IMHO.
Back in 2000 or so our studio has purchased these Asus Geforce cards that came with stereo glasses at 60Hz, they were quite horrible as I recall. Though we only tried them once.
