YDL v5.0 confirmed for PS3; arriving mid November

[SPM]

Based on the PS2 Linux kit, to my knowledge, no one was able to read the DVD drive without some kind of hardware-level hack.

PS2 relied on control of the bootloader to prevent unofficial games from gaining full control.

PS3 has an SPE running a hypervisor OS doing DRM all the time Linux is running. This means Sony has fine grained control of what runs on the PS3 and what exactly they can access all the time Linux or Linux applications run. This means they can grant access to the BD drive if they want without allowing applications to boot off it or allowing more limited access (like access to say only 3 SPEs) to applications running in the unofficial applications (Linux) layer.

 

[Fruitfrenzy]

I suppose they could also block access to game discs to prevent people ripping game content to the HD.

 

[SPM]

I suppose they could also block access to game discs to prevent people ripping game content to the HD.

Yes. That is what DRM is usually used for.

 

[Platon]

You can already do everything mentioned above on the PS2...

Cool, I thought that maybe the other Sony divisions for music and movies would not appreciate that their own console would be able to play pirated stuff...

 

[DemoCoder]

No kidding! This is awesome. I already thought it was rather interesting to read that this is the Linux version that drove OS/X on the PowerPC Macs, and after the initial shock of them leaving for Intel, they seem to have recovered in a very similar way that IBM is.

YDL has nothing to do with OS X. OS X is a derivative of Mach and BSD. YDL is a derivative of Redhat Linux. Sony made a mistake IMHO going with a Redhat derived distribution and not an Ubuntu/Debian derived one.

 

[Platon]

YDL has nothing to do with OS X. OS X is a derivative of Mach and BSD. YDL is a derivative of Redhat Linux. Sony made a mistake IMHO going with a Redhat derived distribution and not an Ubuntu/Debian derived one.

Not being a coder or anyting what does all this matter? What is the difference between the different distributions, I mean isn't Linux just Linux and thats it?...

 

[SPM]

Not being a coder or anyting what does all this matter? What is the difference between the different distributions, I mean isn't Linux just Linux and thats it?...

Redhat tends to be more server orientated and less user friendly. Ubuntu is desktop orientated. Novell/SuSE is somewhere in between. The package (application) lists and the default applications are also a little different, and scripts and config tools are different. There are minor permissions differences also like RH uses private user groups and a default umask of 0002 rather than setting the directory's sticky bit and a default umask of 0022 to share directories between groups of people which is the Unix standard practice.

However I don't think it really matters, because the PS3 distribution is going to be a lot bigger than RH Fedora - possibly the biggest Linux distro of all - and so it is going to be customised a lot (including Cell specific stuff) and maintained separately anyway.

 

[Arwin]

YDL has nothing to do with OS X. OS X is a derivative of Mach and BSD. YDL is a derivative of Redhat Linux. Sony made a mistake IMHO going with a Redhat derived distribution and not an Ubuntu/Debian derived one.

Sorry, yes, I realised that later when I had a discussion with someone about this. OS/X obviously couldn't go with Linux because they wanted to be able to shield off some code, which wouldn't have been possible at that time using Linux which requires all code to be released to the public, right?

Anyway, we aren't 100% certain yet that this is going to be 'the' version, but obviously so far they haven't made the wrong choice as they've used it in all sorts of server applications, not just the Mercury/Blade stuff, but even the recently announced one where they hook up several PS3s to form a cluster.

I think it's probably better for them to focus on getting this version as good as possible on the PS3, as that would benefit both the well-paying business consumers and the end users, but at the same time there's definitely a possibility that eventually we'll be able to install any Linux distribution that we like.

 

[StefanS]

Redhat tends to be more server orientated and less user friendly. Ubuntu is desktop orientated. Novell/SuSE is somewhere in between. The package (application) lists and the default applications are also a little different, and scripts and config tools are different. There are minor permissions differences also like RH uses private user groups and a default umask of 0002 rather than setting the directory's sticky bit and a default umask of 0022 to share directories between groups of people which is the Unix standard practice.

However I don't think it really matters, because the PS3 distribution is going to be a lot bigger than RH Fedora - possibly the biggest Linux distro of all - and so it is going to be customised a lot (including Cell specific stuff) and maintained separately anyway.

I'd like to add that the stability of the system and the security is also different from distribution to distribution. E.g. Debian is considered a rather stable version.

 

[Phil]

Based on the PS2 Linux kit, to my knowledge, no one was able to read the DVD drive without some kind of hardware-level hack.

I am fairly certain this is not correct; You are able to mount the DVD drive under PS2-linux AFAIK. I'm fairly certain I did that at least once to copy some of the RPM packages I had not installed from the beginning. Even if not, what's stopping from just mounting a Windows drive on another computer through network?

I've been using Linux (various distros, including PS2linux) for over a year extensively now and never needed any DVD drive. All you need for additional software is a networkcard, internet access and firefox or lynx.

 

[Titanio]

Official PR, with detail/clarifications

Terra Soft has made the formal announcement. It confirms that they are providing it with Sony's blessing, and that YDL for PS3 will be made available for free on public mirrors on the web. It also confirms some of the stuff they've "enhanced" for PS3, including some dev tools, Open Office, FireFox, Nautilus etc.

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/news/2006/2006-10-17.shtml

Terra Soft to Provide Linux for the Sony PLAYSTATION®3.

LOVELAND, Colorado - 17 October 2006 - Terra Soft is proud to announce Yellow Dog Linux v5.0 for PLAYSTATION®3 from Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI).

Yellow Dog Linux v5.0, Terra Soft's next generation Linux operating system for Power will support PLAYSTATION 3, providing an end-user experience far surpassing previous versions. Through an aggressive, rapid co-development project conducted by Carsten Haitzler and the Enlightenment development team, Yellow Dog Linux v5.0, built upon Fedora Core 5, now integrates the next generation "E17" desktop in order to provide an unprecedented level of function and interface aesthetic. Designed for users of all ages and all levels of experience, Yellow Dog Linux v5.0 is Terra Soft's most advanced distribution to date.

"We have worked closely with the energetic, determined E17 team to bring this advanced graphical user interface to a state of interface euphoria. It's not about eye candy and unnecessary special effects, it's about finding balance between a lean, uncluttered desktop and a personal environment that is both familiar and powerful. E17 is simply the most incredible thing I have ever used --with any operating system," states Cesar Delgado, System Administrator for Terra Soft.

Owen Stampflee, Lead Software Engineer of Terra Soft Solutions expresses, "From the days of the Commodore 64 to modern overclocked and water cooled home computers, a battle has raged between dedicated game boxes and home computers for highest quality game play. PLAYSTATION 3 provides an industry first exceptional Linux OS experience ... and Terra Soft the first Linux OS. I am proud to have played a part in this development."

Under basic agreement with SCEI, Terra Soft was granted a unique opportunity to develop and bring to market a complete Linux OS for the Sony PLAYSTATION 3. In development of Yellow Dog Linux v5.0, Terra Soft integrated and enhanced code from Barcelona Supercomputing Center, Sony Group, and Fedora in order to offer the following:
- kernel 2.6.16
- gcc 3.4.4 and glibc 2.4
- Cell SDK 1.1
- OpenOffice.org 2.0.2
- FireFox 1.5.0 and Thunderbird 1.5.0
- Nautilus 2.1.4
... and a suite of Personal Accessories, Development Tools; Sound & Video, Internet, and Networking applications.

A single-click installer enables absolutely anyone to install without instruction. Post-install, the default suite of applications presents an intuitive, self-guided means of exploring Linux without the confusion of multiple applications in the same family. An Advanced installer mode enables selection from greater than fifteen hundred packages, as is expected from a complete Linux distribution.

PLAYSTATION 3 is an advanced computer system designed to provide next generation computer entertainment contents in the home, incorporating the state-of-the-art Cell microprocessor with super computer like power.

As a guest of IBM at the annual SC2006 tradeshow, Nov 13-16, Tampa, Florida, Terra Soft will showcase Yellow Dog Linux v5.0, Y-HPC v2.0 beta, and Y-Bio v1.1. Yellow Dog Linux v5.0 for PLAYSTATION 3 will be made available through YDL.net Enhanced accounts, through the Terra Soft on-line Store, retailers, and public mirrors world-wide.


About Terra Soft Solutions, Inc.
As the recognized leader in Linux for Power since 1999, Terra Soft provides turn-key integrated solutions built upon IBM and Mercury systems, board support packages for Power OEMs, and develops cross-architecture Linux applications for high performance computing. As an IBM Business Partner, Mercury and Apple VAR, Terra Soft provides turnkey HPC systems. Terra Soft develops Yellow Dog Linux, an historic 32/64-bit Linux OS for the Power architecture and first to market with support for the Cell processor; the Y-HPC cluster construction; and Y-Bio, a cross-architecture gene sequence analysis suite for both workstations and clusters.

For more information, visit www.terrasoftsolutions.com


PLAYSTATION is a registered trademark of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Power is a trademark of IBM. YDL, Y-HPC, and Y-Bio are trademarks of Terra Soft Solutions. Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. Additional product and company names mentioned may be trademarks and/or registered trademarks of their respective holders.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yellow Dog Linux v5.0 for PLAYSTATION 3 will be made available through YDL.net Enhanced accounts, through the Terra Soft on-line Store, retailers, and public mirrors world-wide.

I'm unsure what this means. Linux isn't bundled onto the HDD, but is freely available? Or needs to be bought? Also how can you have a one-click installer without a GUI OS? Assuming the file can be located and downloaded over PS3's browser, how would you access it and run it?

 

[Titanio]

I'm unsure what this means. Linux isn't bundled onto the HDD, but is freely available?

Correct. There's another article out there with a comment from the head guy at Terra Soft saying that he 'hopes' YDL will one day be bundled with the system, which points to it not being bundled at this point. Also notes that this programme likely runs in parallel with Sony's own Linux programme, although that's the author's thoughts rather than something Terra Soft clarifies.

Also how can you have a one-click installer without a GUI OS? Assuming the file can be located and downloaded over PS3's browser, how would you access it and run it?

I think you'll be likely - possibly - downloading images using a PC, burning them onto a DVD, and then popping it into your PS3 and going from there (although how it'll know how to run that, I'm not sure). The setup once you start YDL's own installer will be a one-click installer - not 'one click' from your XMB or anything. It's possible you'll be able to download a file via the XMB browser and run it from there, but I think the former is more likely.

 

[Planet]

I really cannot imagine Sony requiring a PC to install Linux on the PS3. Also i don't think there will be another "Sony Linux", YDL probably is just that thing.

So yes, i do think the installer will be a signed app to be run from the XMB. But of course i could be wrong.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So yes, i do think the installer will be a signed app to be run from the XMB. But of course i could be wrong.

Hmmm...could be a one click 'get Linux' option in the XMB, which would then turn into a 'Run Linux' button.

 

[patsu]

I'd say they'll be completely sandboxed from one another, ideally (from a security point of view). I think it has to be that way. I can see what you're getting at (running created apps directly via the xmb?), but I think that'd be a long time coming, if ever. Of course, if you ever have an app that's good enough, you'd be a in a good position to go to pitch it to the e-Distribution initiative, wherein it'd be made into a 'xmb app', so to speak (and sanitised of any potentially harmful code ).

Yes... running Linux apps directly from XMB (instead of launching the entire Linux environment from XMB). I am hoping it's not a dual boot environment.

If they're using a hypervisor, theoretically it might be possible for the XMB and Linux to be running simultaneously, though. So you could, for example, select an icon on the XMB and open Linux in a window within the XMB, so it would appear (on the surface) to be running within the XMB. But even if they are using a hypervisor (which I think they are), that functionality wouldn't necessarily be there day one.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Given that MS is here to stay, Sony will need to cultivate an ecology/platform this gen to compete with MS effectively next gen. It seems to me that the Cell HyperVisor, Linux, OpenGL and Collada form the foundation for this platform strategy. A large part of this will *require* consumer acceptance of specific Linux applications (Otherwise, there'd be no special draw/attraction for PS4... assuming all else being equal).

A few years back, Ken said he wants to make money off the console hardware (eventually, like PSTwo) and "open up" (software) distribution. I remember Sony also mentioned that the "PC" strategy will be possible only if PS3 starts to make money (2 years from now ?). I'll also add that *if* the demand for Linux applications is strong, this may encourage Sony to capitalize on Linux further. These apps are likely specialized entertainment/living room functions (as opposed to word processing and such).

Intuitively, I think we will get to see more prominent and easy access to Linux apps one day on PS3. I believe at this point both Sony and MS have considered various scenarios for panning out. And they should be a few steps ahead of my thinking (because they run the d*mn business and need to be paranoid)

There are certain risks in opening PS3 to Linux, but if they don't, MS will do it to them next gen using the PC + XBox + LiveAnywhere combo. I also await the day I can access Google apps and Amazon s3 on PS4. Don't believe me ? Wait and see ... as long as Kutaragi continues to be forward thinking.

 

[Arwin]

It's all in there:

Yellow Dog Linux v5.0 for PLAYSTATION 3 will be made available through YDL.net Enhanced accounts, through the Terra Soft on-line Store, retailers, and public mirrors world-wide.

Basically this means you can both buy the install on disc and download it. For either, you will not need a PC.

- Install from disc

You can purchase the disc probably bundled with a nice install guide and manual, and possibly even a version that comes with mouse and keyboard, in the shop. Likely, it'll be right next to the eyetoys, webcams and the rest of the stuff that you usually find in behind glass in gameshops, but also buy it online and have it sent to you by mail.

- Download

Additionally, you will probably also be able to just download it from YDL's 'store-front' in the Sony store directly, probably YDL.net enhanced accounts could be linked to the Sony id, but we'll see.

I think if you do a download, you can do several things, one of which download it on the PS3 directly to the PS3 and then install it with one click. This is after all already possible on the PSP - firmware upgrades and game demos work in a similar way (at least game demos can as of firmware 2.7, although so far only the Japanese website supported this).

You can in fact already download files (zips, videos, movies, etc.) to your PSP from your PSP Browser, so don't be too surprised that all this kind of functionality will be ready to go on the PS3.

 

[one]

Cool, finally concrete details!

Probably it's free as long as you ignore this YDL.net community support tool and go on your own risk with a freely available copy.

I suspect it runs just like other e-Distribution games side by side or on top of the realtime OS of the PS3 which runs XMB, so you can go back to the PS3 by pressing the controller PS button after playing with the Linux for a while. If so this Linux is likely to come with a signed module and can interfere with the DRM article in the GPLv3.

 

[Arwin]

There are certain risks in opening PS3 to Linux, but if they don't, MS will do it to them next gen using the PC + XBox + LiveAnywhere combo. I also await the day I can access Google apps and Amazon s3 on PS4. Don't believe me ? Wait and see ... as long as Kutaragi continues to be forward thinking.

It's not just that though ... Cell was originally meant to go in the Apple and has all this potential, and yes, the PS3 is basically already a PC like you said so Sony want to capitalise on that. But the two main reasons I think were these:

- they want to cultivate PS3's homebrew scene so that more developers will get used to Cell, which benefits everyone involved in Cell
- they want to lower the investment level required for developing games. Together with the E-distribution initiative this is a very important part of that.

I was by the way already assuming that the first series of PS3's wouldn't have Linux installed, because the production was already underway where it looks like YDL's release won't be properly ready until launch - they're still tweaking stuff in E17 as we speak and even though they could've picked up some of that with downloadable updates, I don't think they'd have wanted to include it this early.

Also, it could be a very interesting stimulation for developers targeting Linux as there are going to be a lot of PS3s which aren't going to be able to run Vista for some time yet.

 

[Titanio]

I think if you do a download, you can do several things, one of which download it on the PS3 directly to the PS3 and then install it with one click. This is after all already possible on the PSP - firmware upgrades and game demos work in a similar way (at least game demos can as of firmware 2.7, although so far only the Japanese website supported this).

Downloading and installing an OS that will run independently (I presume - I doubt you'll be opening windows in the XMB to run this in) is a bit different than downloading executables that will run under the XMB though. I still think downloading and burning to a DVD via a PC is very possible. We'll see though.