Doh! Someone needs to write a plugin in dumb-user front-!end
YDL v5.0 confirmed for PS3; arriving mid November
- Thread starter Titanio
- Start date
Well, looking at video 4, I think perfect opposite is a bit overstated. From what I'm seeing there, it looks more consistent than Windows XP so far. I like it much - the default theme isn't that hot, but there are plenty of themes that are ... ! (I like the black background one, with the red/blue logo in the middle).
I think the dumb-user should be fine just running applications and the occasional theme change and other than that leave the system alone. The really dumb-users can stick to the XMB anyway.
One of the first goals of having Linux on the PS3 was always also to have coders on there, so being able to actually do some serious coding on the system is also important. Anyway, all they need to do is make sure that stuff like connecting USB devices is a breeze. Other than that the PS3's hardware configuration isn't going to change much so that should greatly reduce hassle for end-users. This desktop looks pretty easy to use - both OS/X and XP users should be able to find their way around easily enough.
Thanks for the vids. Watched 1 and 2, d'loading 4. Now I understand E17 is the WIMP frontend. It looks okay, on the whole. I'm one of those who customizes everything on my machine (custom icons even) but I'm not sure it's that good nor important a thing. Most people customize XP as far as changing the backdrop. It'd be intersting to know if Sony are/were targetting mainstream or geeks in particular - let the geeks have everything to keep them happy (large portion of early adopters) and then the mainstream can use the defaults.
Edit : What CODEC is movie 4? Won't play on JetAudio, Media Player or QuickTime.
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Gradthrawn
Veteran
Wait, wait, wait.... Did you mention mainstream and Linux in the same sentence without a "not" somewhere in there?
What mainstream user can you think that would even bother with Linux? Seriously, name just one. And don't name anyone on this board either, they are guilty (of geekdom) by association.
You'll get all your customise everything wishes granted in video 4. I used VLC for it, which every computer should have installed anyway.
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
Wait, wait, wait.... Did you mention mainstream and Linux in the same sentence without a "not" somewhere in there?
Well, the PS3 could bring Linux to mainstream users. I think that's definitely a good possibility, as lots of mainstream users will buy a PS3. You might just get curious to see what the fuss is all about.
It works under VLC. The codec is FMP4.
Gradthrawn
Veteran
I think the dumb-user should be fine just running applications and the occasional theme change and other than that leave the system alone. The really dumb-users can stick to the XMB anyway.
And it’s with the XMB that I feel SCE should concentrate its efforts. Linux support is nice, wonderful even. However, it’s a limited market, and the market it’s limited to is self-sufficient given proper documentation and tools. The XMB is where I think SCE could offer a true desktop alternative (please note that I did not state replacement). Calendar (with PDA support), email, spread sheets, and document editing applications integrated into the OS could be very useful to a broader market than just Linux users. Being able to do all of that through Linux, particularly if its not pre-installed, is probably not going to appeal to anyone who is not already aware of, and relatively familiar with, Linux. Now, being able to do simple things like that the same way one starts chatting with a friend, or listens to music on their PS3 is likely to have a much larger appeal. Mass-market appeal? No, probably not. But I can think of many a college students who have CRT/Flat Panel monitors in their dorms (or rooms) that would greatly appreciate such functionality. The PS3 could then serve dual roles for them, which could possibly be a cost savings depending on their situation. But I'm getting way off topic. Perhaps a discussion for another thread.
I also think we should be careful when differentiating what SCE does with Linux and what Terra Soft (and others) do. I get the feeling much of what is included is going to be decided by Terra Soft, SCE just provides the tools (and license) Terra needs to get it up and running as they do with any developer. Ken has described Linux, and other OSs, running on the PS3 as just simply an application, like a game. Running on top of the Cell’s hypervisor. As long as the app complies with the TRC and any other rules, SCE probably isn't concerned with content, options, customizations, etc. I'm not so sure this is SCE's homebrew plan either. They may very well release a Linux distro specifically for that, in which case they'll probably be heavily involved in what goes on with that. If they use Linux at all, that is. Then again, this may very well be their homebrew plan. More information sure would be nice...
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Here are some old quotes regarding Linux and modular nature od ps3:
- RSX will be accessible from linux.
If all of this is true, then it's possible that one day we'll see ps3 with 1gig of ram. Perfect for linux.
Anybody knows how big is PS3 OS? Well, nobody know that, but what's the size of that internal flash memory?
And one n00b question. Is there ANY possibility for linux to access some/or all of RSX video memory and use it like system RAM?
- Linux runs as an application with ps3 OS in backround. [if this is true, then pressing that sexy red button in linux will bring up the ps3 OS]
- RSX will be accessible from linux.
- modular ps3 announced.
If all of this is true, then it's possible that one day we'll see ps3 with 1gig of ram. Perfect for linux.
Anybody knows how big is PS3 OS? Well, nobody know that, but what's the size of that internal flash memory?
And one n00b question. Is there ANY possibility for linux to access some/or all of RSX video memory and use it like system RAM?
I was talking about Linux being used by the mainstream of PS3 adopters. If you've bought PS3, which millions of non-techheads will, you'll have Linux on their, of which some might give it a look, and if the interface were heavily reworked, a different computer (not Windows or Linux) could find mainstream adoption at least for small jobs. eg. If a household has one PC, and Little Jonny wants a PS3, and his parents want him to have a useful PC for doing work, including Linux could solve both needs. Thus Linux becomes mainstreamed, used by people who wouldn't choose it but for who it's offered (of course with all the proviso's about useable applications).Wait, wait, wait.... Did you mention mainstream and Linux in the same sentence without a "not" somewhere in there?
Ack! Yet another app. I'll give this (or the codec) a whirl.
It's a window manager for X11/Gnome. It was originally a standalone WM that was really radical for its time, with a completely skinnable UI, virtual desktops with live thumbnail views, etc. These days it is a bit more utilitarian and functional, and is one of the more common WMs for Gnome.
It will probably ship with several WMs and you will be able to pick and choose what you want during the install or change on the fly. Again, since it's integrated with Gnome, it's no longer the crazy "Aliens" UI that you could only change by editing config files...
This is very exciting news. I'm eager to obtain my PS3 and learn as much as possible about the Linux OS. From what I have been reading, Yellow Dog 5.0 will be bundled with a wide variety of software applications. Basically, everything is covered from word processing, multimedia, emulation, and Yellow Dog comes with a variety of web-browsers. It's going to be very interesting to see how they all perform on the PS3.
Having seen movie 4, I see what it's getting at. Given the amount of customizability, I hope Sony produce a PS3 brand theme that's a little more classy than what's been shown so far (technically good, but lacks that Apple/Sony je ne sais quoi), and provide suitable QC on the bundled software so it's useable and not quirky or buggy. Including apps like a spreadsheet package that crashes out or muddles things up would severely hurt the image I think. PS3 needs to be seen to run working software, or Joe Public, in their infinite wisdom, will think 'it's a console, not a computer - no wonder all it's programs are buggy!'
I totally agree with you Shifty Geezer.
In my opinion it's VERY important that Sony has been working very closely with the makers of Yellow Dog to make sure their software works as perfectly as possible on the PS3. This is an opportunity for Sony to market their console as also a potential replacemet to a personal computer, and it's also a chance for the makers of YD to have their OS on literally a hundred million consoles by the end of the PS3's lifespan. They both need to be careful to make the most out of this opportunity and not let bugs, glitches, or compatibility issues screw this up.
What would also be really cool is if this new OS is stylishly modeled in a way that's unique to the Playstation 3. Of course it needs to be optimized to fully utilize the PS3's hardware. That's the most important issue, but in addition if it's stylishly attractive I think it could go along way to motivating people to try it out. Hopefully, the PS3 version of YD 5.0 will have a cool name, sleek looking graphical interface, and be a good "fit" to the PS3.
In my opinion it's VERY important that Sony has been working very closely with the makers of Yellow Dog to make sure their software works as perfectly as possible on the PS3. This is an opportunity for Sony to market their console as also a potential replacemet to a personal computer, and it's also a chance for the makers of YD to have their OS on literally a hundred million consoles by the end of the PS3's lifespan. They both need to be careful to make the most out of this opportunity and not let bugs, glitches, or compatibility issues screw this up.
What would also be really cool is if this new OS is stylishly modeled in a way that's unique to the Playstation 3. Of course it needs to be optimized to fully utilize the PS3's hardware. That's the most important issue, but in addition if it's stylishly attractive I think it could go along way to motivating people to try it out. Hopefully, the PS3 version of YD 5.0 will have a cool name, sleek looking graphical interface, and be a good "fit" to the PS3.
Linux will likely run in a sandbox, isolated from the XMB/firmware OS. Access to the Blu-Ray drive will also be restricted, though aside from that, everything should be pretty much accessible.
Probably not. The device itself will probably be locked out from the Linux OS.
By giving the Linux camp a distro, Sony can be pretty sure that those people will not be attacking PS3 security.
The XBox 1 was attacked simultaneously by people interested in warez, people interested in Linux and people interested in homebrew. Breaking the machine to run unsigned code was a common goal for all of these camps and resulted in a common solution.
That will not be the case with the PS3.
As you might imagine Linux kernel hackers are a much bigger threat to any security architecture than your average warezing kid. Removing these guys from the battle is a good idea.
The XBox 1 was attacked simultaneously by people interested in warez, people interested in Linux and people interested in homebrew. Breaking the machine to run unsigned code was a common goal for all of these camps and resulted in a common solution.
That will not be the case with the PS3.
As you might imagine Linux kernel hackers are a much bigger threat to any security architecture than your average warezing kid. Removing these guys from the battle is a good idea.
That's absolutely crazy! If you can't load data from a disc then what's the purpose of having an OS at all? I mean, they are really going to an extreme if you cannot even purchase a Linux based application that is compatible with Yellow Dog and load it into the PS3. I'm not calling YOU crazy by the way. You are giving your honest opinion and I respect that.
