Yes, this is true and one of the issues stopping me from bringing the PC downstairs...they do those really small PCs that mount onto the VESA plate but those are really expensive - if they can have an OS that is easy to nagvigate with a controller (only need keyb/mouse infrequently) then that would be another step forward.
YAPCVC Debate (usability) *spyawn
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Yes, this is true and one of the issues stopping me from bringing the PC downstairs...they do those really small PCs that mount onto the VESA plate but those are really expensive - if they can have an OS that is easy to nagvigate with a controller (only need keyb/mouse infrequently) then that would be another step forward.
FarticusMaximus
Newcomer
There is no save location faff with Xbox One. Cloud saves are automatic.
Setting them up is a one off, and they exist because they came with benefits that in the past didnt exist. You dont set them every time you wanna play. You do it once when you first boot your console.
All my updates happen in the background while my console is in rest mode.
Regarding Destiny, so what? It has nothing to do with being more complicated, Its an MMO. Its something that was absent from consoles in the past. Its an addition to the traditional gaming experience. The offline/single player experience continues to exist in games like it did in the past. If you want that experience you still have it
Regarding memory saves, rarely do we have the need to take them to someone else's house and we now have the luxury of not having to buy extra cards, and we can make tons of saves in our hard drives. USB sticks are lying everywhere and are dirt cheap if we want to transfer them to another console.
Cloud saves happen automatically
Yes they are. Let me describe you how I game every day.
Console:I switch on console, insert disk/select game, play.
PC:I wait minutes for it to boot up-open steam-select game, play
Lets see the installation process when you first boot up game
Console: Put in disk, select game, wait, games starts, play
PC: Select file to install, go through installation process, select game, game starts, go to options and choose settings that best suit my PC hardware, play game, potentiality to go through settings again and make changes because previous settings didnt give the results I wanted.
Lets see what happens as time passes:
Console: Nothing changes. Games play like they always did
PC: Games play slower, potential crashes and extended loading times, need to make software maintenance to remove unnecessary background tasks, clean up, defrag or potentially format and reinstall OS
Get an SSD! My PC is ready to use as fast as my PS3 is.
That's also a benefit. What if the console experience isn't the results you wanted? What if the framerate is too low and you can't reduce the resolution?
Hey, this is another frickin' PC versus console discussion! And I'm being dragged in. No!
Unless it's a digital game of course.
My PC boots up quicker than my PS4 - and no PC games require finding the disk (let along having to go through the process of finding the game, unboxing, ejecting the disk that was in the console - finding the case and putting it away.
My PC reality is find game, select buy, select download - after download run Geforce experience then run game. Very complicated stuff.
Consoles get long in the tooth, run at rubbish resoltions and framerates, on PC I can upgrade and run things at a much better resolution and framerate with more effects.
It's a trade-off.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
This is all getting decidedly off topic now gents. 
I'm iclined to think that we've now firmly beat this topic black and blue
I'm iclined to think that we've now firmly beat this topic black and blue
Prophecy2k
Veteran
To be fair, the PS3 is hardly quick and snappy to use. In fact it's probably the legit worst console user experience in the history of consoles (still loved mine though).
This is all getting decidedly off topic now gents.
I'm iclined to think that we've now firmly beat this topic black and blue
yeah, I don't like sounding like a "pro PC gamer"
Yes thats why I said "insert disk/select". If its digital its even faster
Unless its digital. You have that option too.
The "process" of picking game disk is not experienced as a "cumbersome" process. Its effortless. With this argument is like saying that any way you go, digital or disk, we can and never had an experience of immediacy on any console ever. Its like describing your breathing "process" step by step to make it sound like its complicated.
Perhaps for you this is the experience. It is not everyone's though. Perhaps your PC is strong enough hence you can play everything on Ultra or High without a sweat
That depends on your tolerance. This is you. Your tolerance to lower resolutions and framerates below 1080p and 60fps is low, which leads you to go to the extra process of searching, buying parts, opening your PC and installing them. This has always been the case since I dont know? Since the 32 bit era? Its been 20 years and this has never been a reason for a mass conversion from console to PC gaming.
The good thing about consoles is that developers squeeze out performance due to the closed nature of the box. The minimum requirements of PCs are usually a lot higher than that of a console and yet the console might be performing close, the same and sometimes better than those requirements because often games on PCs arent optimized as well as they should.
My console experience is good and can last for years without having to upgrade
Yes it is. A trade off that some are willing to take and some are not
I am waiting for prices to drop. I want to put a sizeable one in it.
Well I dont know. Usually framerates are like shit at the end of the console's life and these games are few. 30fps with some dips are tolerable for the majority. Consoles are running around the medium settings at this point with a resolution that is at acceptable levels. Reducing anything from that point would have resulted to an ugly result somewhere else. The good thing about consoles is that most of the time good games are optimized as much as possible given the closed box nature. So results are usually good. If I dont have a very powerful PC I am tampering a lot with lots of settings, not just resolution because each game performs differently and they arent fully optimized. Some newer games may require a PC upgrade later to be able to play at least acceptably, which is something that many people arent required to do to play the same game on a console. I am not talking about the high or highest settings now.
It is relevant though because its discussed in the context that the PC land may affect negatively the sales growth of the PS4
But you know except from the immediacy there are also those unique exclusives and many games that are never released on PC because the PC demographics wont buy them. The living room experience is common on consoles. Thats a setting that fits many games while its uncommon on PCs.
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I'm not saying it's not relevant, but it's too sprawling. We'll have a huge PC vs Console debate (again) without actually settling on an answer as to whether PCs are or are not a threat to PS4's longevity. If I could find the other PC vs Console debate I'd move posts. As it is, I'll draw an official close to this PC line and axe any follow-ups. Stating one thinks PCs will get easier and provide more competition (or not) would still be on topic.It is relevant though because its discussed in the context that the PC land may affect negatively the sales growth of the PS4
Actually, on that point, I do wonder if Win10 will be the game changer? I do like the idea of a mobile experience like the Shield Tablet playing Xbox games, then playing them full-fat on PC, and maybe having a micro-console. If that happens, it might eat into PS4's longevity among the more serious gamer do to the added value, but that'd be completely unpredictable.
There are a whole ton of factors that will keep PCs from overtaking consoles for a very long time. Sony won't have to worry about PC gaming encoaching on the sales of the PS4 and its software.
Put it this way, in a hypothetical situation where you have a person who knows very little about PC/console sees a MS sponsored Witcher 3 commerical and ends with the line "available on Xbox One and PC". Now work through the logistical differences between that person buying a console to play Witcher 3 versus buying a PC to play Witcher 3.
The difference is night and day. You can walk into any big retailer that sells electronics or your local gamestop and walk out in 10-15 minutes with a console and the game. Thats practically impossible on the PC side. The best that person could do is buy a prebuilt PC like Alienware with Steam preinstalled. But that means the person interested in playing witcher 3 on PC requires specific knowledge, which general consumers don't tend to have.
Everything about a console is designed to make it very accessible to the general population. Literally nothing is done on the PC side to mimic that accessibility.
I don't care how better product B is when compared to product A. If A has massive sustained marketing, sold in a bunch of big retailers and designed in a way to make easy to use by your everyday consumer and B is sold in a way like ordering through a mail order catalog and isn't generally consumer friendly, product B has a impossible hill to climb when in comes to outselling product A.
You're somewhat missing the point. Anything can happen in any of these spaces. In two years' time for all we know, Windows 10 PCs will be sold as consoles in many highstreet retailers. According to this post, you'd only need PCs to be available in Gamestop and Walmart to cover 55% of the US market. There's not a lot of difference conceptually between PSTV and a PC microconsole, and these companies already stock tablets - Game stocks Surface tablets for example.
And we're not talking about outselling PS4. We're talking about impacting sales enough to stop PS4 reaching PS2 level sales. If Windows consoles can eat 20 million into PS4's potential over the next 7 years, that's 20 million less chance to reach PS2's numbers. Likewise tablets. The days of using a PS2 to game for casuals because there wasn't much else option are well and truly over. Some of that audience will be served by mobile now, and it'll need a growth of the less-casual market to fuel the same sales, which is possible.
And we're not talking about outselling PS4. We're talking about impacting sales enough to stop PS4 reaching PS2 level sales. If Windows consoles can eat 20 million into PS4's potential over the next 7 years, that's 20 million less chance to reach PS2's numbers. Likewise tablets. The days of using a PS2 to game for casuals because there wasn't much else option are well and truly over. Some of that audience will be served by mobile now, and it'll need a growth of the less-casual market to fuel the same sales, which is possible.
Persistantthug
Newcomer
Well, I'll just say this.....the obvious:
There is nothing on the PC market that resembles a console.......not in ease of use, not in usability, not in marketing, and not in (the biggie) price.
I've been waiting a long time to see it and the closest thing that's come to fruition is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Bandai_Pippin
20 years and I've still seen nothing really, So I'm definitely on/with a MISSOURI-esque position.
There is nothing on the PC market that resembles a console.......not in ease of use, not in usability, not in marketing, and not in (the biggie) price.
I've been waiting a long time to see it and the closest thing that's come to fruition is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Bandai_Pippin
20 years and I've still seen nothing really, So I'm definitely on/with a MISSOURI-esque position.
I dunno.
Put on PC , click on the icon that says steam , pick game. Done
Put on Ps4 , scroll to the proper sub menu , pick game . Done.
Seems pretty easy.
Persistantthug
Newcomer
The majority of console AAA games are sold on disk formats.
Console gamers spoke real loud and hard that they are not willing to depart with disks.
You can get some PC games in some stores of course, but even then, when and/or if you find them in said store, it's conspicuously thin compared to the console(s) selection.............
and then we go into the all powerful marketing dilemma.
Windows consoles being sold in retail outlets does sound interesting and could have the potential to not just impact PS4 sales, but also XB1 and other Windows 10 PC sales. If the experience gets easy and automated enough then there'd be good reasons for MS to not bother releasing another system if Win 10 consoles sell nicely. They could then apply the Xbox brand to all Win 10 based consoles and well yeah. This would be good discussion for a new thread.
In regards to PS4 actually being able to reach PS2 numbers without the casual market, that's going to be tough. Sony should produce content that lures casual gamers in and hopefully some can be converted to core gamers. I don't know what these types of games would look like, but something arcadey but clearly only on PS4. One area where I think they can take advantage of the proliferation of smartphones and tablets is by allowing remote play on those devices. Every hour someone plays their PS4 via their phone/tablet through remote play is an hour not spent in someone else's ecosystem. They might as well accept the fact that mobile is here to stay and take advantage of it.
The ultimate deciding factor IMO of PS4 meeting PS2 sales is price. If Sony is unable to reduce the price to a point where more people will purchase it then that's an even tougher challenge. Part of the appeal of consoles is they come down in price over time and end up being a mass market item with a broad games library. I do think it best that they retain profitability on each console sold, but will they ever be able to make a profit at say a $149 price point in 5 years?
This may be true as of now, but as this generation moves on I suspect those purchasing digital will grow as a percentage of overall spending. Sony is smart not to alienate those who want physical media, and also smart for embracing digital. With the pre-loading of games it is just way more convenient to buy a game digitally and not suffer going to the store to buy it. But I like physical media and glad I have a choice for games I plan on keeping. I'm of the belief the two can coexist peacefully, yet fully aware digital will likely grow for the forseeable future.
Persistantthug
Newcomer
Persistantthug
Newcomer
I don't deny that it's growing, but it's still far far behind disk based sales:
http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/05...ssively-increases-yoy-last-gen-almost-halved/
Me, personally, I just don't really dig not physically owning the stuff I buy. I'm of the old school frame of mind, that if you can't buy, sell, or trade your bought items, then you really don't own shit. Something my rigid-minded Dad would have said....he was old school for sure. And sure, Dad's way of thinking was hard at times, but his simple logic was pretty solid. I think I prefer to call it Motherwit.
