YAPCVC Debate (usability) *spyawn

Discussion in 'PC Hardware, Software and Displays' started by Nesh, May 14, 2015.

  1. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    In what respect more user friendly? We still have to install games, play with a bunch of settings, and PCs lack the immediacy of a console. You just put the disk in and it will automatically install and play the game. Even my grandma can turn on a console. A PC not so much
     
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  2. zed

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    Wait you're accusing a person of cherry picking by using the actual sales figures of the 3 largest game makers in the world (excluding nintendo) and remember their PC data includes digital sales
    with your non cherry picked data which is from drumroll ............ The Open Gaming Alliance (OGA)
    I have spoken about this organization before on these forums, they used to be called the PC Gaming Alliance before they changed there name (so they appear less biased) :grin:
    Whats next you'll be citing data from BP,Shell,Exxon than humans don't contribute to global warming
    Cherry Picking :lol:
    has the OGA changed its mantra from and I quote
    Sure these guys are non biased :runaway:
     
  3. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    Oh man these guys most likely picked just EVERYTHING related to gaming software including the crappiest 50 cent games to boost the results towards what they wanted to show :lol:
    Coincidentally I was having the same discussion about the same figures with some "PC Master Race" gamers who didnt know how to read the financial statements and statistics I was showing them and they were using the same arguments
     
  4. Prophecy2k

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    Err... this thread is about "Ps4 longevity". The data I posted was from the company financials of the three biggest console industry games producers, who themselves make-up a sizable majority of the software marketshare for console games. The discussion was about whether VR on PC and mobile would affect the lifespan of the PS4, and the data I posted is merely a snapshot, which shows that console software sales are far more dominant for the producers of console software, than PC's or even mobile.

    I'm making the inference here that consumers will go where the software is, and if PC and mobile are not stealing software dev resource away from consoles for AAA non-VR games, then it's highly unlikely that they will do so for AAA VR games. Thus, the major game publishers will continue to focus on consoles for VR as they do for non-VR software development and marketing.

    Those figures include all PC software, from MMOs to MOBAs to RTS and simulation games that no only don't exist on consoles, they are also aren't really relevant to console gamers, and thus won't eventuate any console gamer apostasy to PC, VR or not. Your figures may be factual or not, but they're tangental to the subject at hand and so one cannot draw any inferences from them.

    My post wasn't actually directed at goonergaz. It was directed at eastman who insists that the existence of a cheaper VR solution (in terms of price / power) on PC and mobile will kill PS4/Morpheus and "put Sony in a weird position". Which the data I posted suggests is wishful thinking at best.

    You posted some (honestly) not very useful data, and said that PC's are becoming more and more user friendly, which may be true, but for the vast majority of gaming consumer in the market for a piece of gaming HW, is hardly going to matter, because the stigma of "$1000 GPUs and the need to tinker with drivers and config files just to get a game to work" still exists in the mind of the mass market. And so the mainstream consumer will be unlikely to start shifting towards PC whoesale, no matter how "console-like" the PC gaming experience might be becoming (imho, as a casual PC gamer also, it still has a loooooooong way to go).
     
  5. goonergaz

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    If you think PCs are not more user friendly than they were a few years ago then I can only think you don't game at all on PCs. I'll be honest, I don't like gaming on PCs but things are much easier - once a steam account is setup you can just click to buy a game and install it. Steam lists all your games for you and auto-updates. Then you have things like the Nvidia software geforce experience that will optomise your hardware up for each game.

    I didn't say it was as easy, I said it was getting more user friendly all the time - which it is. I know quite a few people went from PS3 to PC due to the lack of power in PS4, I know it's anecdotal but it does happen and next gen more could go to PCs...or as I've said, in a couple of years there might be a tempting solution.
     
  6. goonergaz

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    ok my bad to thing that as the research was done for MCV it might carry some weight. TBH I did a google and found similar articles by Forbes (and other websites citing different sources of data) so I guess all those are biased too.
     
    #6 goonergaz, May 15, 2015
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  7. goonergaz

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    Possibly, in fact very likely. However a lot of these games are now turning up on the consoles and either way it shows a trend of PC gamers spending more on games so the market is growing.
     
  8. Nesh

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    Easier it may be but it is still a far cry from the console accessibility
     
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  9. Shifty Geezer

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    The comparison was with the console experience, not the yesteryear PC experience. PCs still have a reputation for getting slow and kludged after use - I was just discussing with a mate about choices for his daughter going to college and she wants a Macbook to avoid all Windows' issues. There are cheaper quality Windows laptops out there, but the fear of Windows crapping out persists in the mainstream. That's something they don't have to worry about with consoles. MS will need to provide an incredibly robust Windows experience for a number of years before they can occupy the same mindspace in consumers as convenient CE devices for PC.
     
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  10. Prophecy2k

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    Well, decades of willful and intentional ingrained obsolesence in their OS and software design will do that.

    Unfortunately, for many users, the issue is further compounded by all the latent spyware and malware that young users pick up from around the internet on porn/torrent sites that further slows down their machines. This of course is not something MS can really do much about however.
     
  11. BRiT

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    I guess things look much different when you just ignore facts that dont fit your viewpoint, like the big title games that are not sold on steam and never will be.
     
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  12. goonergaz

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    I don't disagree but that dosen't mean the gap can't be closed - also people are getting more tech aware and happier to tinker. I'm just saying it's not black and white differences any more, in some ways consoles are more complicated than they ever were with having to instal before playing and installing updates etc.
     
  13. Nesh

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    Everything happens automatically on console. There is nothing complicated. The process is exactly the same now as it was back when it didnt have any installation. The only difference is that the first time you pop in the game it takes a little bit of extra waiting time.
     
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  14. goonergaz

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    You mean like GTA, Minecraft and CoD? Again, I'm just saying these things might happen - there's a lot of complaining about the lack of exclusives and new IP this gen - if that situation gets worse then there's even less reason to buy consoles.

    Personally I will pretty much always buy consoles and have them as my 1st choice in gaming, but I've seen great improvements in PC gaming over the last few years.

    I'm not a PC gaming warrior or anything, there was a similar debate not long ago about why it's better to get a PC than console and I can assure you I am well within the console camp!
     
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  15. goonergaz

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    That's not quite true, I'm not saying it's complicated just a bit more complicated. PS2 era you just popped a disk in and now we pop a disk in, wait for it to install - download any updates - sign in to PSN, potentially sign up to a Ubi account if it's an online Ubi game.
     
  16. Shifty Geezer

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    This has been covered numerous times before. As someone between consoles who owns a PC ready to game with a cheap GPU, I still find it's not the same experience and isn't as user friendly. For those who game on PC, I expect they are a little desensitized to the issues and can't relate to the annoyances or frustrations that non-PC gamers experience with PC still.

    For the purposes of this discussion, let's just wrap it up as PS4 facing competition that may or may not impact sales. Otherwise we'll just tread the same board for the dozenth time, trying to predict the future of mobile and PC.
     
  17. goonergaz

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    Yeah sorry, I totally agree on both parts - PCs do still frustrate the hell out of me too! lol
     
  18. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    All the things you mentioned happen automatically. Same with PS3, 360. The only extra step is the wait for the initial installation. You can skip the updates if you want. Even a computer illiterate can do it.
     
  19. JPT

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    Not taking steam devices into account (not tried one), but the most annoying thing for me with PC's, are that I can't really use one within the confines of a living room setup (my definition).
    By that I mean that its placed under/by the tv and is easily controlled without a keyboard and a mouse. In my experience you need a dedicated area for the PC, which is fine, if you want to reserve the space or use it for other things than gaming.
    Personally all PC stuff, I do on my Macbook Air and gaming is easy to access on my console via its controller. PC does not give me that instant, streamlined gaming environment I get from a console. Which to me is more important than price performance comparisons. I actually bought a PC for playing around with Oculus, but I have booted that device about 5 times, 3 times for some Oculus testing and 2 times for watching a video that my console did not support at that time.
     
  20. goonergaz

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    Setting up accounts for PSN & Ubi (etc) are not automatic and are 'over and above' just shoving a disk in and therefore are more complicated, regardless of how small that change is. And good luck playing online with an unpatched game...or playing at all on Destiny without being online. Also you are not considering things like game saves...if you want to play your game at a friends house - in the old days you take the cart with you, or memory card on PS2, now you have to upload to the cloud or buy a USB stick and navigate to specific file in the correct location in the O/S and copy across (etc).

    Consoles may be more 'immediate' than PCs but 'immediate' they are not. Don't forget alot of the updates you mention also happen automatically on PCs these days. Game patches, driver updates (etc).
     
    #20 goonergaz, May 15, 2015
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
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