Xenon info?

[Inane_Dork]

But there is absolutely no sign that MS has secured any new developers, at least significant ones, for the next xbox. And it is only a year away from hitting the market.

Secured? No. But maybe part of that is because they have not announced the platform yet. It would be quite goofy for MS to trumpet that they have X2 devs which did not work on the X1 before officially unveiling the X2.

Besides, there are fairly strong hints about some new blood. Factor 5 is a member of the XNA initiative. Square has claimed to re-examine working on X2. There may be more, but those are fairly big.

Truth be told, I really don't think MS needs much more help. If MS could get every Xbox developer to be an X2 developer, they'd have a more popular platform. That may sound like lunacy on the surface, but put it in perspective. When the X1 launched, it did not have as much visible support as the X1 has now. If the X2 could launch with all the support the X1 has now, it could start off far stronger.

 

[PC-Engine]

I think that the confirmation that Xenon would be smaller in form factor than Xbox is very good news. Let's hope they hire better industrial designers too.

 

[Ty]

I think that the confirmation that Xenon would be smaller in form factor than Xbox is very good news. Let's hope they hire better industrial designers too.

Oy vey do they. Steal some away from Sony.

 

[Lazy8s]

... maybe they can just trade Sony some quality assurance engineers in exchange.

 

[one]

I am interested in the CPU(s) going into Xenon and how it will work. What it will actually turn out to be has me intrigued the most. I'm not so sure if a multithreaded tri-core CPU is practical. If it ends up oin the Xenon then I think the chip would also be inside the N Revolution and be dubbed the Triforce CPU.

IBM's roadmap for Power CPUs suggests that they release Power5 and Power5+ with 90nm in 2005, then Power6 with 65nm in 2006. If Nintendo stops its tradition of a tight hardware budget in the Revolution, it's not unlikely that the Revolution get a CPU of one generation ahead of that in Xenon. But I think the most notable point in Xenon CPU is how MS adds special instructions to it rather than the raw power.

As for PC, you see the clear trend that the PC gaming market is shrinking. Longhorn and Xenon will share joypads and XBL, but won't have big positive effect on the side of PC more than some spare dev budget by XNA. Longhorn happens to (almost) require DX9 hardware for its desktop, so gaming is not more than a byproduct of it. What MS will push in Longhorn gaming will be the Xbox Live compatibility. The PC gaming market is not controlled and already a dumpground for crossplatform ports from consoles, games by small startups, and few old PC-established franchises which are ensured to sell, 18-over adult games, and MMORPG clients.

Even Xbox was nothing more than a harassment project against PS2 which looked like a promising 'home media center' or a PC replacement thin-client in 2000 though PS2 couldn't reach there in this generation. MS couldn't sit there looking Sony invade the potential market where MS tried before with WebTV/ActiveDesktop etc. and failed. The loss of Xbox business doesn't matter for MS. Xbox executives repeatedly ensure that Xenon is small and efficient, but it's only about the hardware form factor. I doubt MS won't dump a huge budget into Xenon. They'll keep it until they win.

Desktop Linux won't take off in the next 5 years or never (unless PS3 starts to work as Linux PC), and currently MS's server division does well against Linux. Instead, those added-value-network for the enclosure of customers, such as music download stores, gaming networks and so on will be the next battleground. MS failed in it with .NET passport, but stupid gamers may be tempted to signup easily with card numbers.

If Xenon is strictly meant for gaming, it can be without an HDTV-ready optical disc drive as Steam-like content distribution network is enough, but in that case HDD and a fast network are required.

 

[London Geezer]

I think that the confirmation that Xenon would be smaller in form factor than Xbox is very good news. Let's hope they hire better industrial designers too.

Better?

Cause they hired some last time around?

 

[rabidrabbit]

Wasn't the guy who "designed" xbox a guy who had among others designed for Nike before?

Lazy: I don't know what good hiring QA staff from MS would do, as their quality on xboxes hasn't been too good either, from what I've heard there's enough faulty disc drives and HD's gone bad on xbox too.
Sony's quality on PS2 wasn't that bad, not worse than any mass market consumer electronics device. It has been blown out of porportion by Sony haters You want proof... my launch day PS2 has had only two or three lock-ups during it's whole life-time, and it's been on heavy use. I've heard similar stories from many of my PS2 owning friends, while many of my xbox owning friends have had nothing but malfunctions on their xboxes

 

[London Geezer]

... maybe they can just trade Sony some quality assurance engineers in exchange.

Yeah Sony needs that, or what happened with PS2 will happen all over again!!!11!111!!

 

[Qroach]

I don't know what good hiring QA staff from MS would do, as their quality on xboxes hasn't been too good either, from what I've heard there's enough faulty disc drives and HD's gone bad on xbox too.
Sony's quality on PS2 wasn't that bad, not worse than any mass market consumer electronics device. It has been blown out of porportion by Sony haters You want proof... my launch day PS2 has had only two or three lock-ups during it's whole life-time, and it's been on heavy use. I've heard similar stories from many of my PS2 owning friends, while many of my xbox owning friends have had nothing but malfunctions on their xboxes

From what you've heard? Well stop right there.

I've never had a problem with my launch Xbox, and I only know one person that had a problem with an Xbox disk drive. I do however know MANy people that have had problems with PS2 systems. Especially early PS2's. So it's not like PS2 aren't breaking down in a similar fashion.

 

[Qroach]

tuttle,

But there is absolutely no sign that MS has secured any new developers, at least significant ones, for the next xbox. And it is only a year away from hitting the market.

Who annouces developer support BEFORE a console has been officially annouced? Come on, at least be reasonable. There's already been a few developers such like Square/Enix that have expressed interest in possibly developing for the next MS console.

Let's wait for an official list ok? Not only that, but developer support can be annouced after the console launch as well.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I don't know what good hiring QA staff from MS would do, as their quality on xboxes hasn't been too good either, from what I've heard there's enough faulty disc drives and HD's gone bad on xbox too.
Sony's quality on PS2 wasn't that bad, not worse than any mass market consumer electronics device. It has been blown out of porportion by Sony haters You want proof... my launch day PS2 has had only two or three lock-ups during it's whole life-time, and it's been on heavy use. I've heard similar stories from many of my PS2 owning friends, while many of my xbox owning friends have had nothing but malfunctions on their xboxes

From what you've heard? Well stop right there.

I've never had a problem with my launch Xbox, and I only know one person that had a problem with an Xbox disk drive. I do however know MANy people that have had problems with PS2 systems. Especially early PS2's. So it's not like PS2 aren't breaking down in a similar fashion.

Yeah really? well let me tell you something. I've never had a single game freezing or refusing to load repeatedly. The couple of freezes I've had have most likely just been because of a hair or dust particle that had conveniently found it's place between the disk and lens.
Neither do I know a single person who has had his PS2 permanently damaged so that a little cleaning wouldn't have fixed things 100%.
So those slight malfunctions were really not Sony's fault

 

[rabidrabbit]

tuttle,

But there is absolutely no sign that MS has secured any new developers, at least significant ones, for the next xbox. And it is only a year away from hitting the market.

Who annouces developer support BEFORE a console has been officially annouced? Come on, at least be reasonable. There's already been a few developers such like Square/Enix that have expressed interest in possibly developing for the next MS console.

Let's wait for an official list ok? Not only that, but developer support can be annouced after the console launch as well.

...reminds me of the strong rumours during xbox launch which told us that there's been some meetings between MS and Square, and it would look like Square will be bringing Final Fantasy to xbox

If asked, any company (well, maybe not those strictly 1st parties) will say something like "we're always researching the future platforms, and xenon/revolution/PS3 fully deserves our consideration"....
It has been seen that often it doesn't continue beyond that "consideration" point....

It's a little funny (and sad ) how some people grasp at the slightest straw uttered by Square... and Final Fantasy isnt even that big name anymore.

The developer support list that is launched for a new console doesn't tell anything abot the real support the console will have at launch or after. Nor does it tell about the future success of the console.
One just needs to check the N-Gage developer support list that was published pre launch. How many of them have actually released an N-Gage game, did Sega's support mean N-Gage became a success

 

[one]

Who annouces developer support BEFORE a console has been officially annouced? Come on, at least be reasonable.

In the last month Koei already announced 'Oni' for the next-gen PS

As for hardware quality, I assume PS2 and Xbox are both more vulnerable than GameCube from what I hear, but Xbox disc scratching problem in Japan is one of factual accounts.

 

[Fafalada]

As for hardware quality, I assume PS2 and Xbox are both more vulnerable than GameCube from what I hear, but Xbox disc scratching problem in Japan is one of factual accounts.

Frankly I think existing consoles are built more reliably (and more sturdy) then tons of other electronic machines we used over the years.

Eg. - Amigas were one fragile piece of machinery (although admitedly my abuse put my A500 through extremes) - I would never dream dropping one from 50cm-1m and expect it nothing to break.
PS2 survived that though (no I didn't do it on purpose, I swear). Jap launch unit still works too, inspite of all the office abuse. I figure PSTwo will be even better for doing this since it's lighter

Actually my complaint is really with the DTL10000 kits, their drives freaking fail all the time due to dust accumulation (I barely ever use the drive, actually for past 2 years, I never touched it) - first the discs stop being recognized, and the final stage is when the tray door simply refuses to open. But at least it's consistent, so far it happened on every devkit that has accumulated enough dust.

Oh while I'm babbling, I mistakenly put PSP controller/prototype through a er... "stress test", and it took it about as well as a DualShock2.
Now, a DS2 will take several months of being mistakenly dropped from a table like that until it starts showing damage (I've tested this with many units, so it's pretty reliable ), first only internal (you'll hear rattling noise when you shake it) and with continued abuse, the casing may eventually crack (only managed it with one unit so far).
But I should note PSP casing feels a lot sturdier then DS2... Definately also way more sturdy then any other mobile device I've used (PPCs I always worry they'll just break from holding them and if you seriously use it, expect screen to be scratched to hell just from the stylus use within a year... at least with any IPAQ model. GBA plastic also feels fragile in comparison, and don't even get me started on the mobile phones).
Only question is how resiliant the mechanical parts of the UMD are...

 

[ChryZ]

Faf, I'll never ever going to borrow you stuff of mine

 

[London Geezer]

Xbox disc scratching problem in Japan is one of factual accounts.

Hey, that might be a hernia you know. Disc itching is not to be underestimated.


By the way, after the monthly Bump Mapping on PS2 thread of a few days ago (which turned into the quarterly Who Needs Bump Mapping, It's All About The Gameplay thread), i guess it was time for the yearly PS2s Are All Broken thread, which will in turn transform into a Half Of All PS2 Sales Are Replacements thread...

 

[Dave Glue]

Considering Apple is a ten billion dollar a year in revenue company, yeah, it seems to be working quite well for Apple.

Compared to MS's annual profits, they're absolutely laughable. MS made 2.9 billion in profit for one quarter last year.

Apple made a profit of 61 million in the same quarter, and they were quite happy about it. Come on, they're not on the same planet.

If you're really followed Apple's financials the past two years, you would know that the iPod has been their little white knight. Sure, Powerbooks and iBooks are selling well now, but without the iPod Apple's financial situation would be quite dire. They innovate their ass off (well, at least in terms of industrial design), but up against an open hardware market, even with XP severely crusty around the edges, they just barely tread water with their little niche. No, it actually hasn't been working that well for Apple.

Apple isn't a beacon of hope for a new profit model for MS, it's a warning buoy.

If MS just keeps going along the same path they currently are on, the average pc keeps getting cheaper and windows keeps getting more expensive relative to the overall price.

Which is why MS is trying to look for different revenue streams for Windows, such as XP MCE (rumours are that in 2005 it becomes the XP Home edition as a stopgap before Longhorn).

Look, any MS executive looks at the profit from their Windows division, and looks at the profit (cough) from their Xbox division, and adds up the numbers. The console business can be extremely profitable, but it also can be extremely expensive. Sony has dominated the past two console generations, and sold a ridiculous number of boxes - you don't think they wouldn't trade places with MS in a second?!

 

[jarrod]

Who annouces developer support BEFORE a console has been officially annouced? Come on, at least be reasonable.

In the last month Koei already announced 'Oni' for the next-gen PS

As for hardware quality, I assume PS2 and Xbox are both more vulnerable than GameCube from what I hear, but Xbox disc scratching problem in Japan is one of factual accounts.

Sure, but Microsoft never suffered a class action lawsuit as a result of their console reliability. At least not that I'm aware of.

Sony suffered a similar suit with the original PlayStation overheating/skipping, I believe they settled with both (which is why they'll fix PS2s free of charge way after the warranty expires these days, Gamefaqs has a FAQ detailing exactly what to say to customer service to greenlight a free repair). I'd say Sony easily has the worst track record in this area among major game platform manufacturers, and that's not even taking into account the PSX debacle. I'll be buying a big fat store warranty along with my launch PSP, thanks.

 

[one]

Xbox disc scratching problem in Japan is one of factual accounts.

Sure, but Microsoft never suffered a class action lawsuit as a result of their console reliability. At least not that I'm aware of.

In the US, no one can be free from arbitrary lawsuits, OK?

 

[Qroach]

Rabbidrabbit,

It's a little funny (and sad ) how some people grasp at the slightest straw uttered by Square... and Final Fantasy isnt even that big name anymore.

It's even more sad or pathetic perhaps, that people like youself feel the need to spin comments. Square/enix never officially stated they were e en considering support for xbox before launched. If they are in fact interested in xbox 2 (yes that obviously remains to be seen) then obviously something MS will have done is an improvment.

one,

In the last month Koei already announced 'Oni' for the next-gen PS

I was talking about "who" as in the console manufacturers annoucing support for a console before it's officially annouced. You won't see SONY, Nintendo or MS say anything about this until after the console have been officially annouced. we already know of many developer stating they are working on next gen projects.