Xbox360: Splitting the userbase at launch?

[pc999]

I echo your sentiment.

One more.

 

[BlueTsunami]

One more.

*coughs...which adds to the echo

I feel Microsoft mislead the public about the HDD in that it was to be in the standard version (possibly was never said, but the way they made it seem so important would have obvious effect on people). Also, I see the $299 version as a dirty tactic...releasing this pricing info with the cost of the peripherals..you can clearly see what their trying to do...its one thing to be just business but thats just out right wrong.

 

[Brimstone]

How about some opinions from folks (and hopefully devs) about the repercussions of MS seemingly splitting the userbase featurewise at lauch with no standard HDD? What effect will it have and how will devs deal with some people having HDD's, and others not. How similar to the situation with the N64 expansion pack?

IMHO a hard drive attached to a Xbox 360 will be ubiquitous.

Apple has made so much money from iPod, I think it's just a matter of time before Microsoft releases one with a hard drive that matches the 2.5 inch form factor of the XB360 and can dock with it. We've heard the rumors about this before. The potential dual functionality of playing music and storing data for activities while using your Xbox 360 is pretty compelling.

Seagate is using their 2.5 inch drives in notebooks so that will help in terms of volume to keep prices low. Over time I'm sure a small base hard drive will become so cheap even the "most tight fisted with their cash consumers" that buy a core system will pony up.


Just a side note here, Seagate has a 2.5 inch hard drive with 160 GB capacity coming out for notebooks this winter.

http://www.betanews.com/article/Seagate_Mobile_Hard_Drive_Hits_160GB/1118244284

 

[scooby_dooby]

the $299 version coupled with peripherals that are marked up 300-400% is nothing short of gouging.

combine that with the fact they are not allowing 3rd part competition AT ALL for most of their peripherals.

Like,, do they NOT want people to buy their system or what? Since when is ridiculously overpriced peripherals a GOOD thing?

 

[pso]

*coughs...which adds to the echo

I feel Microsoft mislead the public about the HDD in that it was to be in the standard version (possibly was never said, but the way they made it seem so important would have obvious effect on people). Also, I see the $299 version as a dirty tactic...releasing this pricing info with the cost of the peripherals..you can clearly see what their trying to do...its one thing to be just business but thats just out right wrong.

Yes, it is a dirty tactic. It's basically forcing us to go for the $399 premium version, not cool at all.

 

[one]

All you need it a large memory card for MMORPG's. You don't need a complete hard dirve.

Well, the announced 64MB memory unit @ $39.00 seems not large enough to me..

 

[BlueTsunami]

Well, the announced 64MB memory unit @ $39.00 seems not large enough to me..

If 64MB = $39, then I'm scared to think what will happen if you try to break the 200MB barrier (on a peripheral from Microsoft).

 

[Brimstone]

Yes, it is a dirty tactic. It's basically forcing us to go for the $399 premium version, not cool at all.

You as a consumer have a choice. It's a entertainment device, not something that provides food, water, and oxygen that you need to survive.

So

 

[aldo]

whats going to happen if you've got 3 flavors of the 360 floating around?

Actually it's 4 flavors as ndoogoo stated.


The X360 game scenario will be:
1) Basic unit game,
2) Game requires HDD,
3) Game requires HD-DVD, and
4) Game requires HDD and HD-DVD.

Not a whole lot better, the PS3 will cut this down in half;
1) Basic unit game, and
2) Game requires HDD.

I percieved the inclusion of the HDD as one of MS's greatest strengths over the PS3. I think this decision plays right into the hands of Sony. Kutaragi/Sony have been playing mind games with MS by suggesting an astronomial price for the PS3 knowing MS's desire to make a profit on their system and you really can't blame MS for biting. MS is trying to balance creating a huge user base before the PS3 comes out and why lose a $100.00 on every system by including a HDD and a wireless controller @ $299.00 if it's not necessary. The only thing that could hurt MS on this afterall is if Sony includes a HDD and sells their unit also @ $299.00 and that's not very likely to happen.

The only ones that will be hurt in this will be the developers who will have to write their software to be able to run without the HDD or accept that their product won't be marketed to all X360 owners and the same will be the case for games developed for the PS3.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Actually there's only one flavour of xbox360 according to MS. The other version is "XBOX Core", sounds dumb, but apparently that's what they're going with.

When they say xbox 360, they mean the premium package.

I'm not sure where you guys are getting these hd-dvd claims from.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's said from the horse's mouth MS might well include a HD playback device in future versions. This'll only be for movie playback though, I'm sure. I don't think there'll be HDDVD based games.

 

[aldo]

http://palgn.com.au/article.php?id=2767

Rumour #2: Xbox 360 to have HD-DVD

A poster on Slashdot wrote that, 'According to the statements made by Bill Gates in Japan, Xbox 360, the new gaming console, will include HD-DVD drives. Considering that such a decision would postpone the launching date, Microsoft will equip the initial models with classic DVD drives, and only after the new HD-DVD are ready, the Xbox will incorporate them.'

Now, we actually reported on this over a month ago. But let's dissect this: Sony's going Blu Ray, so for sheer bragging rights, it does make sense for Microsoft to back the Toshiba/NEC developed HD-DVD, especially since Microsoft has recently formed something of an alliance with Toshiba. However, it's obviously going to be a nightmare for those who planned on getting a 360 at launch. Would they have to upgrade? If not, no games could support the format, since not all Xbox 360 consoles would be able to read the discs.

And what's more, it turns out this news is apparently true. Several sources have now quoted (and mis-quoted) Bill Gates as confirming the 360 will move to HD-DVD when the format is ready. It seems that just like their backward compatibility (or lack thereof) problem, Microsoft don't yet have a clear plan. More on this news in the future, we hope.

This is a rumor just like during the MTV official event, when Microsoft said that the new gaming console will come with a 20 GB HDD.

 

[scooby_dooby]

It's said from the horse's mouth MS might well include a HD playback device in future versions. This'll only be for movie playback though, I'm sure. I don't think there'll be HDDVD based games.

ya, the way they are talking I thought maybe there was an actual annoucnement or something.

but you're right on, if they do release HD-DVD version, it won't be for games as that means segmenting the user base which is pointless. much better to just have dev's create 2 or 3 dvd games if it really comes to that, which I see as beyond far-fetched.

 

[Acert93]

HD-DVD Games Lets just pull stuff out of thin air now :?

As for skewing the market, if MS goes with the following they will be fine:

SKU #1: Xbox 360
SKU #2: Xbox 360 + HDD/Live GOLD

*If* they allow Gold membership for playing games online (like I am sure they will...) without the HDD I see the HDD as an almost complete loss.

The saving grace is thus:

Memory card => $40

HDD => $100

360 Premium Bundle with HDD ($100 value) + Headset ($20) + Gold ($50) + Component Cables ($40) + Wireless controller ($10) + Ethernet Cable ($10) + Remote ($30) => $100 ($270 worth of junk)

Obviously the $400 SKU is the best value (if you want the stuff in it). As Shifty said the other day he though MS could sell a higher priced 360 this fall with no problems, well, he got it

Edit: It looks like some sources are saying the $400 SKU does not come with Live GOLD

 

[Acert93]

Btw,

Where are all the Euro gamers who should be all excited over the $300 announcement? I would have thought, based on a couple threads in the last couple weeks in regards to price, a lot of Euro gamers would just be estatic at ~200 Pounds and ~300 Euros !!

As much as I HATE the HDD move, overall I must say that the FAIR pricing in Europe sounds like the real news to me.

 

[Paul_G]

I'm ecstatic!!

I was ecstatic in another thread though. As far as I see it, though technically Europe still got a bum deal, a new console coming out at a base price of £209 is great news. In the UK, neither Sony nor MS have an advantage really, Sony sells through more, sure, but they had momentum before Xbox got started. A basic unit at £209 is really going to drive demand i think, and to have the premium unit at £279, with all that extra kit is great. The original was £299 and didn't come with barely anything. A headset, remote, wireless... it's all great. To be honest, i don't think you guys in the US know just how great a deal $399 is, let alone the $299 you got last time.

I share other's concerns over the fragmentation of user base though. I just hope the HDD is either not essential enough to development that it restricts games, or is enough of a must-have that everyone buys it anyway.

The peripherals are reasonable in price too, though one thing that confused me was that while the HDD and wireless adapter was $99, it is different prices in pounds.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Edit: It looks like some sources are saying the $400 SKU does not come with Live GOLD

yup. yet more money to spend before even buying your first game.

 

[clem64]

I agree that it's a dirty tactic. They're trying to make the core system seem like a crippled version of the X360 so that everyone will go for the premium package. No HDD, Wired controllers!?!? Having to buy a mem card means that the core system is unusable unless you dish out another 40$, so the core system is really 340$. Compared to 400$ and you get

- wireless controller,
- 20GB HDD
- headset
- HD cables
- Ethernet cable,
- Xbox 360 media remote.

It's a no brainer that the core system is a horrible value compared to the premium package. This announcement is pretty much the equivalent of saying: Xbox360 = 400$

You know I bought a house last year and I'm pretty tight financially nowadays. 400$ for a video game system sounds really expensive. I hope the price drop won't take too long.

 

[Jacob]

Btw,

Where are all the Euro gamers who should be all excited over the $300 announcement?

What?

Last time I checked:

299.99€ = $368.15 ("Xbox core")

399.99€ = $490.87 ("Xbox 360")

UKers will pay even more (SKU#1 $379.30, SKU#2 $505.75).

Games this gen already cost 55-62€ ($67.5-76) in Europe, and I don't expect them to drop the prices.

Why should I be excited?


And I agree with what clem64 and others are saying. I don't like how MS is handling all this situation in the least. Just release the premium bundle as standard, so that at least devs can use all the extra features. If not, what's the point?

 

[pso]

Edit: It looks like some sources are saying the $400 SKU does not come with Live GOLD

It doesn't, you have to upgrade to Live Gold.

To put it bluntly, MS is milking us hard.