Xbox Scarlet Hybrid Game-Streaming Version, Kahawai

[McHuj]

More rumors regarding Xbox Scarlet

https://www.thurrott.com/xbox/163896/details-microsofts-xbox-scarlett-game-streaming-service

One device is a streaming box and one traditional console for 2020.

First, Microsoft is building a traditional console that you would expect from the Xbox brand.
...
The second ‘console’ that the company is working on is a lower-powered device that is currently planned to ship with the next generation device that is designed for game-streaming. But the catch here is that Microsoft thinks it has figured out how to handle the latency sensitive aspects of gaming.
...
The cloud console will have a limited amount of compute locally for specific tasks like controller input, image processing, and importantly, collision detection.
...
The cloud version of Scarlett is further along in the development cycle than the traditional console that will also be released in 2020

Sounds great to me and its looking more and more likely that 2020 is the year for MS (at least).

If they are indeed offering a cheaper streaming box, then I anticipate the console to be at least $499.

 

[cheapchips]

The 'collision detection' running locally sounds weird. Wonder what the actual split of local and cloud tasks would be. I'd also assume that developers don't really see it. They just write to one system.

 

[iroboto]

The cloud console will have a limited amount of compute locally for specific tasks like controller input, image processing, and importantly, collision detection.

One would have to wonder if Xbox One would be able to support this.

If so it can keep surviving into next gen while streaming the latest graphics if the streaming service performs well.

 

[cheapchips]

One would have inquire if Xbox One would be able to support this.

If so it can keep surviving into next gen while streaming the latest graphics if the streaming service performs well.

I suppose if the streaming box is a full next gen CPU + slow ram + cloud based GPU/VRAM that would rule out current consoles steaming.

 

[iroboto]

I suppose if the streaming box is a full next gen CPU + slow ram + cloud based GPU/VRAM that would rule out current consoles steaming.

Perhaps, though if MS wants xbox one / s to work they would be leveraging the full APU here. GPGPU is going to be a free resource with graphics being offloaded to streaming.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

One would have to wonder if Xbox One would be able to support this.

If it does, why would they need to create a new streaming box? If the streaming box is cheaper (<$200), it's not pricey enough to be a concern as the article suggested. If the box costs as much as an XB1, it'll be doing more with that money with more modern tech.

I think Scarlett on XB1 is a possibility. mind.

 

[cheapchips]

So this is a tech MS have. Running the game locally at low detail settings. The cloud renders at low and full detail. The image difference between the two is sent to the local machine, meaning only around 1Mb/s of bandwidth is needed instead of 7Mb/s.

In this context the Scarlett streaming box is like it's bigger brother but with a smaller GPU. It would make sense for a common APU for the two boxes. The difference with the ''full" Scarlett would be a dGPU and faster/more ram?

 

[anexanhume]

The 'collision detection' running locally sounds weird. Wonder what the actual split of local and cloud tasks would be. I'd also assume that developers don't really see it. They just write to one system.

Might this be necessary to make that operation latency insensitive, lest a user have a delay between what they see and what their actions result in?

 

[iroboto]

If it does, why would they need to create a new streaming box? If the streaming box is cheaper (<$200), it's not pricey enough to be a concern as the article suggested. If the box costs as much as an XB1, it'll be doing more with that money with more modern tech.

I think Scarlett on XB1 is a possibility. mind.

If Thurott is accurate, I would assume form factor and TDP are the key issues they will want to solve with the streaming device.
$99 USD seems like a reasonable price point (if other streaming devices are coming in at $59), I'm going to assume no (limited) storage and no optical to meet a form factor the size of a book.

 

[dobwal]

So this is a tech MS have. Running the game locally at low detail settings. The cloud renders at low and full detail. The image difference between the two is sent to the local machine, meaning only around 1Mb/s of bandwidth is needed instead of 7Mb/s.

In this context the Scarlett streaming box is like it's bigger brother but with a smaller GPU. It would make sense for a common APU for the two boxes. The difference with the ''full" Scarlett would be a dGPU and faster/more ram?

That tech doesn’t seem bound by a high level of cpu performance. It has two modes. Run at high frame rates with low settings and the tech will use gpu offload to provide the quality of higher settings. Run at high details and low framerate and the tech will use gpu offload to insert additional frames to boost frame rate. Given that the tech seems to be targeted at mobile and laptop space, it seems rather agnostic when it comes to local hardware.

 

[McHuj]

I would think that there would still be a latency issue of some sorts with either approach like a dropped frame here or there. I'd like to see a modern 4K rendered game instead of doom3 in a youtube video.

 

[iroboto]

I would think that there would still be a latency issue of some sorts with either approach like a dropped frame here or there. I'd like to see a modern 4K rendered game instead of doom3 in a youtube video.

There was mention that the titles had their source code modified.
So a consideration to leveraging this streaming method would only apply to newer titles or patched titles. Fairly big deal here for the streaming box, you won't get access to the whole library; however re-purposing XBO will enable play for all of this gen, 360, OG, and stream next gen (in theory).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Quality of both solutions was far from great. Good enough for a small handheld, but not something core gamers are going to appreciate. TBH I'm not sure how the delta can be compressed smaller than the high quality version. I guess it can be more aggressive where the delta is low, but if the differential between high quality and low is significant across the whole screen, you've got 1mbps which is going to have to compromise on quality. The concept is also still dependent on network quality. That's not just a factor of bandwidth, but interruptions etc. At the moment if watching a video and someone else in the household starts streaming something, the video can tolerate the latencies as long as you have the bandwidth, whereas online gaming can take more of a hammering. I'd expect images to glitch as much as network gaming can (stutters, etc). Heck, the server won't know what to render without input from the user, so latency is going to be a problem just syncing local game to server.

Worth an experiment, but the main box is still going to be the driver IMO.

 

[iroboto]

Quality of both solutions was far from great. Good enough for a small handheld, but not something core gamers are going to appreciate. TBH I'm not sure how the delta can be compressed smaller than the high quality version. I guess it can be more aggressive where the delta is low, but if the differential between high quality and low is significant across the whole screen, you've got 1mbps which is going to have to compromise on quality. The concept is also still dependent on network quality. That's not just a factor of bandwidth, but interruptions etc. At the moment if watching a video and someone else in the household starts streaming something, the video can tolerate the latencies as long as you have the bandwidth, whereas online gaming can take more of a hammering. I'd expect images to glitch as much as network gaming can (stutters, etc). Heck, the server won't know what to render without input from the user, so latency is going to be a problem just syncing local game to server.

Worth an experiment, but the main box is still going to be the driver IMO.

How much of what we're seeing is source code changes?
I'm going to assume all the fail over, tolerances, and skipped frames behaviours would be handled by the developers.
The quality could be extremely variable?

 

[iroboto]

If it does, why would they need to create a new streaming box? If the streaming box is cheaper (<$200), it's not pricey enough to be a concern as the article suggested. If the box costs as much as an XB1, it'll be doing more with that money with more modern tech.

I think Scarlett on XB1 is a possibility. mind.

hmm if Matt is accurate:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ru...al-system-as-well.57285/page-14#post-10709185

Unless my English comprehension is not up to spec, according to him, no it's not going to be possible.

 

[cheapchips]

There was mention that the titles had their source code modified.
So a consideration to leveraging this streaming method would only apply to newer titles or patched titles. Fairly big deal here for the streaming box, you won't get access to the whole library; however re-purposing XBO will enable play for all of this gen, 360, OG, and stream next gen (in theory).

If the streaming box is using a full next gen cpu + % of full GPU then it's still going to be as powerful as the XBone. It could do back compatibility locally.

 

[iroboto]

If the streaming box is using a full next gen cpu + % of full GPU then it's still going to be as powerful as the XBone. It could do back compatibility locally.

That's a lot of assumption there, I've no clue what this streaming box will have and at what price points to make the service good enough to warrant consumer interest.

 

[iroboto]

Seems like this is picking up steam:
https://www.gameinformer.com/2018/0...n-local-hardware-and-cloud-variations-in-2020

 

[mrcorbo]

Seems like this is picking up steam:
https://www.gameinformer.com/2018/0...n-local-hardware-and-cloud-variations-in-2020

That just links back to the Thurrott article.

 

[dten]

More rumors regarding Xbox Scarlet

https://www.thurrott.com/xbox/163896/details-microsofts-xbox-scarlett-game-streaming-service

One device is a streaming box and one traditional console for 2020.



Sounds great to me and its looking more and more likely that 2020 is the year for MS (at least).

If they are indeed offering a cheaper streaming box, then I anticipate the console to be at least $499.

I think this too and the streamer (and older consoles) hedges on the higher priced machine. The X used a 16 nm Jaguar CPU and they still couldn't make it less than $500. If Scarlet has 2X Navi GPU, 2X RAM (though maybe not even that much), and a modern Zen +/2 CPU, it could be a feat to make it at $400 in 2020.