even Windows and DOS have POSIX features
Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion
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Xbox April Update: Buy Games with the Xbox App on Mobile, Stream Your Own Game on Console, and More - Xbox Wire
This month's Xbox updates include easy and convenient purchasing within the Xbox app on mobile, the ability to stream your own game on Xbox consoles, and more.
news.xbox.com
Johnny Awesome
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If you think GamePass isn't good value then you are no longer in the target zone for Xbox ownership moving forward.
It wasn't the key reason many Xbox console owners purchased to begin with, but it's the key reason most will stick with Xbox into next gen. GP ownership is increasing btw, slowly but steadily.
I've stated it a few times before - this forum has people like me who believe MS can go multiplatform and keep a slowly growing base of 35+ million GP Xbox owners happy with new hardware, and people like you who believe that multiplatform is the doom of Xbox and everywhere in between.
I'm ok with that. We'll see who turns out more right.
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I read the Kennan "X" article... There will be more surprises in the future, MS's strategy is not what it seems.
Yeah thats why I think a considerable amount of only Xbox consumers will be moving to Sony next gen. I am currently one of them. I dont see the need to get a PS5 or a PS5 pro, unless they get really small and portable or devs make games markedly better on the PS5 pro like GTA 6. So I'll likely only buy a new console next gen and at this point it will be a PS6.
hmmm, well then if thats a factual case Xbox GP is set for great prospects in the coming years. Just dont know if things will remain this way without more acquisitions and with all their titles present on the Playstation and Steam.
No I just think Phil is going to finish off Xbox and Xbox hw as we know it and focus MS Gaming on supporting the Windows ecosystem as a gaming platform. So no more closed Xbox hardware like the OG Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One, Series X. If the Xbox ASUS OEM proves even mildly successful thats the end of closed system Xbox hw. MS Gaming will be competing with Valve for the PC market not with Sony for the console market.
If the next Xbox hardwares is PC-based OEM hardwares, it will appear to consumers as a console in terms of gaming. If they offer a similar plug and play console experience as traditional consoles. If you turn it on with a controller, if you can get to the main menu in half a minute, or even in 3 seconds with quick mode, if you can set it to big screen TV mode by default, if you can launch games with two clicks, or if you can browse between them smoothly with a simple console-like user interface. In addition to all this, it is not excluded that these hardware will also get a console-like form factor.
In this case, people will still consider them consoles and consider them as dedicated Game Pass or Xbox machines.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
I understand. It's normal to think everyone is like yourself. We'll see
If this new PC-box works like an Xbox, who cares?
Like Phil, I'm not invested in this pointless console war anymore. I welcome the new era where PS owners pay for the development of my GamePass games.
Xbox Game Pass not for everyone, only for those who want good for themselves.I understand. It's normal to think everyone is like yourself. We'll see
If this new PC-box works like an Xbox, who cares?
Like Phil, I'm not invested in this pointless console war anymore. I welcome the new era where PS owners pay for the development of my GamePass games.
All Forza's, MS Flight Sims, Indiana Jones, Avowed, South of Midnight all for a few bucks a month, coming soon Clair Obscure 33, Towerborn, Doom DA, Ninja Gaiden 4, Gears of War, Outer Worlds 2, and the next and the next...
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You’ve placed the majority of your emphasis on library and made the assumption that everything else is equal.
Firstly why would someone today on Xbox who is has a large library of games on Xbox want to pay more money to make the switch to PS? You have no library, you have no saves, you’re now buying into an even more locked ecosystem at a higher price point than Xbox. Everything is cross platform play, so friends aren’t really a factor if everyone is on discord.
If the counter argument is that, well now they have access to PlayStation games, well they’ve had the choice for a long time now, which means they’ve already prioritized the Xbox exclusives first anyway. Now if you enjoy all the 1st party offerings from Xbox, to buy them all on PlayStation would cost a fortune, at the rate they are churning them out at least. Would you have money to also buy the PlayStation exclusives? Who has that much time on their hands to play and buy everything and make enough money to afford all of this?
A handful of people maybe. But the majority of Xbox players? I doubt that. Xbox is a much cheaper platform than PlayStation with a much better licensing model, game purchases have significantly more reach on Xbox with play anywhere, xcloud, and being able to be played on various devices.
So other than having an expanded library for games on Sonys consoles which they have already ignored for 2 generations, why would they move to PlayStation? Xbox players looking at both platforms today would see that Ultimately moving to PlayStation would actually mean playing less titles and paying more for it. For an experience that will largely be the same or less since Xbox games are designed optimized for the Xbox platform. If you want yo move your library yo PC, you have that option on Xbox. If you want to move your library to handheld, you have that option. And very soon you’ll have the option to move it to cloud. But what you can’t do it move it to PlayStation.
So why would someone pay more for less? I’ve not seen hit after hit after hit of ps5 titles that is driving Xbox players to leave the Xbox ecosystem. I’ve not seen a generational game title come out yet where you absolutely must own a PS5 to enjoy. These titles just don’t really have that type of impact anymore in the face of the thousands of titles released each year.
Graphics are quickly becoming ignored. Cinematic titles are falling flat. Adult gamers are starting to age out, and younger gamers are used to having access to their games everywhere.
I’m not really sure why anyone would switch up their investment in an age of increasing console prices.
So as long as MS offers a console, the remaining Xbox console players are likely to stay with Xbox.
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This is quite hard to do actually, the only company to come close to this I think is Valve with the SteamDeck but you can see how they lean heavily towards a closed model to pull off something similar to this
If we're being very very honest, this even the hardest part. Console form factor at that power point of a nextgen machine but as a console PC Hybrid? Maybe for over $1000 as well it would need to have an APU similar to the ones that will be in the next gen PS6 but I dont see this happening.
For sure this will be like a new market, not a console, not a PC, more like a Steam Deck but for the living room. So you can see how some current Xbox consumers will move to this model, some will move to PS6 and Switch 2, others will move to PC.
Yeah, no one will really cares, people will gravitate to where they think they are getting the best experienceI understand. It's normal to think everyone is like yourself. We'll see
If this new PC-box works like an Xbox, who cares?
Like Phil, I'm not invested in this pointless console war anymore. I welcome the new era where PS owners pay for the development of my GamePass games.
Very simple, because of certainty. The direction of Playstation, Valve, Nintendo is quite certain. With Xbox you dont even know what an Xbox really is anymore. It could be the Smart Fridge LED display connected to the internet, it could be your tv. Your toaster has a display and internet connectivity? Guess what, its an Xbox(I'm not kidding).
The thing is before you couldnt play Forza, and other Xbox exclusives on Playstation, now that they are all coming to Playstation there really isnt a reason to own the system for a considerable amount of people. You could simply own a Playstation and have Steam on PC and you have every single game day and date or just own a Playstation. The major reason a lot of people bought the Xbox this gen initially was the idea MS Gaming was making acquisitions for exclusive content. Thats all gone now.
Have you tried Playstation Plus?, you get a lot of deals on titles, and there's a huge library of games past and present. Only thing Xbox does better is BC. There it is markedly better. Otherwise all these other points you bring up, Playstation has competitive products as well as the latest Xbox titles on top of its inherent exclusivity.
Again it's about uncertainty and lack of exclusive content. If I had known Phil would do a 180 mid way this gen to bring all Xbox exclusives to Playstation I wouldnt have bought a Series X on launch day. The initial messaging was they were making acquisitions for expanding the Xbox line up and bringing exclusive content. Today its everything is an Xbox. A lot of consumers will simply buy a Playstation next gen as things stand today. Since they can play all new Xbox AAA titles on Sony's system. Its really that simple.
Unless Phil reverses the plan to bring new AAA titles to Playstation, I dont really see next gen Xbox console hw as compelling as before. And thats if they do plan on bringing a new console. Everything points to them creating Xbox branded PC hw running custom Windows for Gaming OS. They are competing with Valve very soon and not Playstation. In fact they are already one of the top third party developers for Playstation.
You have to buy the games, buy everything one by one, give your money to both Sony and MS
. Sure.We are fine with the same games for a third of the price on Day1, and we certainly don't have to wait months for these games. We who enjoy them comfortably in the Xbox ecosystem now on Series X later on Xbox PC thanx to Game Pass. Everyone does it their way.
That doesn't seem well thought out. Valve has no console. As far as I'm concerned, the worst that Xbox could follow is in Valve's footsteps. Today Xbox has 2 consoles for sale and they've alreadyt committed to more. There's no reason to leave the console market yet as it still represents a major part of their revenue.
You're mixing library and 'access' as being the same thing here. You have access to get these titles on Playstation. They aren't on your library. An xbox player leaving for Playstation would have no library there. Every future game they could play on Game Pass they would now need to purchase, or wait to purchase if there is a delay. If you're argument is about access and money is no object, then PC has the most access and there is no reason to own a Playstation either. All their titles are finding their way to PC quicker and quicker.
PS+ has never offered all Playstation Exclusive titles on the service, let alone day one. And neither is PS+ accessible through multiple platforms. I'm not sure how this is even competitive discussion when they just raised their prices to be an earshot from GP Ultimate.
Uncertainty over a new piece of console hardware? That's guaranteed to arrive for at least 1 more generation. Lack of exclusive content? Why does that matter if it's exclusive? Just because it's exclusive doesn't mean you own it or play it or buy it. Exclusive access is just exclusive access. Until a transaction is made, you don't get to play it on Sony's platform. All Xbox games must be purchased to be played.
Well this would represent your feelings on why you want to leave Xbox. Because you value exclusivity. But that isn't the case for every xbox gamer. They could very well value their library. Which they can now take everywhere with a fraction of the cost.
PS5 has always been very exclusive. Remind me of this games generation of games where exclusivity has played a large factor in the enjoyment of titles? While it has definite affect on FOMO to drive people to purchase the hardware, exclusivity hasn't resulted in producing better titles than what's already out there.
If Sony were experiencing large scale growth today, I'm having a hard time seeing it over all their price increases. I don't think Sony is necessarily greedy mind you, but the way they are behaving tends to follow symptoms that the market is shrinking for them, not growing. For all the dominating they are doing over Xbox hardware, they seem to be struggling to keep their prices down among all that 'growth'
I was talking about certainty of direction,I included Valve because of their overall gaming offering including the Steam Deck which is a hybrid style device taking a lot of what works on consoles and PCs into one box.Yes Xbox has committed to bringing new hardware next gen, like they committed to increasing exclusives, like they committed to not putting everything onto Playstation. Its not certain anymore what their direction is. What they commit to today means nothing really, you have to look at their actions.
You missed my point, the games are available and you can buy them if you want, there are always discounts from the Playstation store.I'm saying this as someone that only owns an Xbox this gen but has a Playstation account on my sibling's PS5 to compare both platforms. You could spend $200-$300 a year on games max. While on GamePass I've still had to buy games ontop of paying for the subscription. Thats what you're missing
I still had to buy games while I was on Gamepass. Sony has now copied a lot of nice parts that existed with Gamepass onto their platform, you dont need every game day and date on the subscription service is what I'm telling you.
Again, MS Gaming's commitments mean nothing as of today. Remember I told you all their new AAA IPs would be coming to Playstation, even while they assured the public it was going to be like 1 or 2 titles, thats MS Gaming under Phil. Dont be surprised if the new piece of hardware isnt a closed system hw like it is today and is just a bunch of OEM Xbox branded PCs running custom Windows/Xbox OS. And all the implications of such a family of devices.
Can I surprise you? In every prior comment/post I didnt say my situation "is the case for every Xbox gamer". I said a considerable amount of Xbox gamers wanted exclusive titles available, amongst other things. A considerable amount of current Xbox consumers are just going to move to Playstation next gen since they can have both all the top Xbox games and the exclusive Playstation games. And they dont have to pay full price for all of them with how good Playstation plus has become. Gamepass isnt the sticky service you think it is. Anyone can stop paying for it in an instant and move.
God of war Ragnarok, Spider man Miles Morales, Spider man 2, Gran Turismo 7....
There are industry headwinds brought about by several factors including the global pandemic from 5 years ago, political risk(Tariffs, wars in Eastern Europe leading to oil price spikes), systematic risks(inflationary period brought about by the US inflationary period 2022-2024) and changes related to how much time is spent on home devices as opposed to portable mobile devices,etc. So you're confusing those outside factors thinking they represent internal challenges at Sony yet its Xbox that has had to deal with both these external factors as well as serious internal issues related to software output, marketing, product segmentation, brand cannibalization, unclear roadmap, and so on.
I still had to buy games even when I was on Gamepass!! Not to say there wasnt a ton of good titles, but now Playstation's subscription services offer similar titles as well you get all the new Xbox AAA titles and the exclusive Playstation titles. There's a considerable amount of Xbox only consumers that are going to move to Playstation if they feel there is nothing keeping them with Xbox hw. Some will stay because they already have a large library, others will stay because they only use Gamepass, others will stay because they believe the direction Xbox is taking regardless is whats the best for them.You have to buy the games, buy everything one by one, give your money to both Sony and MS
We are fine with the same games for a third of the price on Day1, and we certainly don't have to wait months for these games. We who enjoy them comfortably in the Xbox ecosystem now on Series X later on Xbox PC thanx to Game Pass. Everyone does it their way.
Xbox users will remain Xbox users precisely because of their existing Xbox library, as you mentioned, and because of the increasingly strong Game Pass. Most people would rather wait and be happy on Series X/S and PC than to suddenly buy a more expensive PS with a more expensive ecosystem like a fool. People are not fools, but there are always a few who suddenly jump to another side out of excitement, which is not relevant. There is no data on who is on which platform in the future, will stay, will be, and the fact that a few of my friends just bought that one is not a valid argument. Most of those who have been Xbox users for years have a significant library on Xbox hardware or PC and will continue to enjoy the exclusivity and favorable pricing of the Game Pass Day1.
Microsoft will be perfectly happy to forego day 1 titles on Game Pass if their research shows that bigger titles would be more profitable if sold at full price even in their own ecosystem. When the majority of profit for CoD is coming from PlayStation and PC, and not game pass that may give them a change of heart to realoze it's better for the bigger titles to stand on their own. And if that happens I would hope those who are Xbox fans or enthusiasts don't make a big deal if it as they should have expected it all along.
Of all the console manufacturers, Xbox has been the one that I've had the most confidence in their digital library, though. Games I bought on 360, Xbox One... Hell some I got on Windows Store and Windows Phone are playable on my Xboxes and PCs. And those that are there often run better on my newer hardware. My PS3 games are locked to that console. My PS4 games will work on PS5, but many require a paid upgrade to perform better. Nintendo is charging for upgrades as well, just like they did with VC games from Wii->WiiU. For me, there is a clear lack of certainty that if I buy digital games on Switch or Playstation that I'll be able to access them at a later date on future hardware.
Unfortunately this just isn’t reflective of the market today. There are too many games and forever titles. People are all too happy to wait for a deal now a days on all platforms. Very few people are paying full price at least by demographics, the only people paying full price are those who are 30s and 40s. It’s not like when we were younger and everyone was waiting for day one releases.
I didn’t miss your point. I explicitly stated that you’re discussing “access” not library. You’re telling me an Xbox player who plays all the day one titles on game pass, spends hundreds of hours playing those games will want to move over to PlayStation to spend more money and buy those titles outright? Or wait until they go on sale? You may as well not play them. Everyone’s backlogs are massive, buying games and not playing them is every bit as waste of money as any sub service.
Gamepass itself is not sticky. But the price point is. If you’re playing 3-10 games per year especially those AAA day one releases, you’re not going to be able to do that for cheaper than game pass. Money is king and the only reason someone would leave game pass is because the don’t see value in the games being offered. If they do see value I the games offered why pay significantly more by moving to PlayStation ?
And then you write
And there’s no proof of this. By your logic every should go to PC because you have all the top PS exclusives as well.
None of these are GTA6 calibre titles that the vast majority of the population absolutely must have.
Not confusing anything here. Xbox has to deal with the same issues as Sony. I never said they didn’t. Xbox actually has pivoted significantly to combat the changing market.
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