That was exactly my point, but we better give up.
He wins.
On a related note I'd be extremely angry with those (80+ year old?) USK guys. Last time I checked burning books were a thing of the past too.
Last edited by a moderator:
XBL Marketplace - NEW RESTRICTIONS!
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
That was exactly my point, but we better give up.
He wins.
On a related note I'd be extremely angry with those (80+ year old?) USK guys. Last time I checked burning books were a thing of the past too.
There's multiple points being addressed here individually.
Yes, different countries have different regulations and licensing arrangements (unfortunate, particularly in the latter's case).
Yes, you should provide correct information when registering.
But neither of these points address the restriction of access to content based on your residency/nationality.
The same companies that license movies for distribution in different countries don't seem to have a problem with Amazon.fr or .de or .com sending me a DVD. What is it that allows Amazon to do that, and not allow MS to open up access to their different marketplaces?
Particularly, when considering EU marketplaces and the iTunes case cited earlier...there is a bigger issue to think of here.
I think it's really unfortunate that digital distribution is in some cases being restricted in ways even physical distribution is not. It's not just a Live problem, but you see it occasionally now when trying to access a website ("this website is not accessible in your region") etc. It's totally not in the spirit of the internet.
Yes, different countries have different regulations and licensing arrangements (unfortunate, particularly in the latter's case).
Yes, you should provide correct information when registering.
But neither of these points address the restriction of access to content based on your residency/nationality.
The same companies that license movies for distribution in different countries don't seem to have a problem with Amazon.fr or .de or .com sending me a DVD. What is it that allows Amazon to do that, and not allow MS to open up access to their different marketplaces?
Particularly, when considering EU marketplaces and the iTunes case cited earlier...there is a bigger issue to think of here.
I think it's really unfortunate that digital distribution is in some cases being restricted in ways even physical distribution is not. It's not just a Live problem, but you see it occasionally now when trying to access a website ("this website is not accessible in your region") etc. It's totally not in the spirit of the internet.
I think there's also opportunity for distributors to provide slightly more resistance if others aren't having to adhere to such restrictions. Content providers will get away with anything they like if MS et al allow them.
I'm just hoping various regulatory bodies get on the distributor's back, and thus the distributors start getting on the content providers' backs. Apple cited the same problem with iTunes (that they were restricted by deals with music companies), but the EU likely isn't going to care...at least I hope not.
(And actually, consumers have a role here too in terms of similarly complaining to the distibutors and the authorities. People should complain about this before it becomes typical.)
Like Steve Jobs, you have to start somewhere before you get your DRM-free stuff in the end. MS had/has a lot to prove first.
Most likely not.
True, the strength of their negotiating hand is an issue here (although it still doesn't explain why content providers do not pursue the myriad of smaller physical distributors out there who'd be an even weaker position). So in those cases, we are relying on an authority to step in and say "no, you have to open up access", to oblige action on the part of both the distributor and the content provider, as appears might happen in the iTunes case (hopefully).
scooby_dooby
Legend
What a ridiculous analogy, you realize you are comparing explicitly illegal activites to signing up for a hotmail account with a false country? Talk about apples and oranges.
And the idea that MS couldn't implement GeoIP lookup until now seems a little ridiculous to me...anyways, I don't wanna argue about this anymore as really, I hardly care at all.
Anyways, the news that demos/trailers are still available to all regions is good news to me, that was the biggest downside of the news for me personally.
Who says Amazon is "allowed" to do that? Studios may turn a blind eye, but I doubt they have explicit permission.
I guess the way I look at it is this: digital downloads are fairly easy to control with DRM, and studios treat the downloads as something they control and users "borrow", thus they are much more aggressive with restrictions. Physical media like DVDs are harder to control, so they don't bother as much. But that didn't stop them from putting in region coding. It's only upsetting now since the controls seem much more fine grained.
Does Sony currently allow a outside region workaround like XBL did pre-this update? Seems like I remember some Gaf discussion along those lines, but not sure.
If they currently do, I'll wager good money we'll hear about that loophole being closed in the future, unless MS is blowing hot air. But will we get a 4 page thread about it?
If they currently do, I'll wager good money we'll hear about that loophole being closed in the future, unless MS is blowing hot air. But will we get a 4 page thread about it?
Bet me.
The thing about this, is that it confirms what everyone with a brain in the head fears. Buying something doesn´t make it yours. Thank god for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, nice plastic i can keep in my house with the picture + sound safely away from the leeches of the "industry".
This is the exact same reason i haven´t bought a single DRM protected track online, it´s really not mine.
So much for the new dawn of downloadable content and goodbye to physical media ehh?
This is the exact same reason i haven´t bought a single DRM protected track online, it´s really not mine.
So much for the new dawn of downloadable content and goodbye to physical media ehh?
1) Consider XBOXLIVE Marketplace as a store.
EVERY store in the EU is open to EVERY EU citizen.
The internet stores thus are open to EVERY citizen that has access to internet.
2) MS decides that they dont want greek customers in their store. Can they do that? The answer is simple. No they cannot do that.
You said about a bar analogy. But you did not get the analogy right.
You go to a bar in UK. And at the front door there is a guy that says you cannot get in because you are French (that is his filter... MS is country). So next time you go you have a fake id saying you are from UK and you go inside the bar. Who is illegal. You that lied to get inside (that shouldnt be a problem in the first place) or the bar owner that stopped you?
EVERY store in the EU is open to EVERY EU citizen.
The internet stores thus are open to EVERY citizen that has access to internet.
2) MS decides that they dont want greek customers in their store. Can they do that? The answer is simple. No they cannot do that.
You said about a bar analogy. But you did not get the analogy right.
You go to a bar in UK. And at the front door there is a guy that says you cannot get in because you are French (that is his filter... MS is country). So next time you go you have a fake id saying you are from UK and you go inside the bar. Who is illegal. You that lied to get inside (that shouldnt be a problem in the first place) or the bar owner that stopped you?
Sorry, but this is a very simplistic view to take. MS does not have to provide service in every country. Each country is likely to have their own laws and requirements regarding sales (local taxes, support requirements, etc.). They simply may not be established in such a way as to be able to meet those requirements in all countries. Furthermore, as has already been mentioned here, they have agreements for distribution rights with content providers that are region specific. Just because MS has the right to distribute a particular movie or game in the UK doesn't mean they can do the same in Greece.
No, but they're not allowed to restrict access either. See the iTunes example mentioned previously; It's against EU law. Clearly music isn't subject to the same regional restrictions as video, so it is different in that respect. Basically there's two different forces at work, and it's down to the legal process/governments to sort out what's required of MS or not.
video is the SAME. That is the reason that europe in ONE region in dvd formats.
There are not country specific laws to ADULT CUSTOMERS whitch use their credit cards to buy online content. The worst restriction would be a rating 18+ and credit card holders are above 18..
When you open an internet service in eu and due to the nature of internet that makes it receable to ANYONE you have to accept every customer from every place in EU.
Sony also breaks the EU law by pricing the PS3 in greece 60 Euros more and by not allowing greek customers to buy from the UK store
There are not country specific laws to ADULT CUSTOMERS whitch use their credit cards to buy online content. The worst restriction would be a rating 18+ and credit card holders are above 18..
When you open an internet service in eu and due to the nature of internet that makes it receable to ANYONE you have to accept every customer from every place in EU.
Sony also breaks the EU law by pricing the PS3 in greece 60 Euros more and by not allowing greek customers to buy from the UK store
I'm sure legal consul from Sony and MS are more familiar with the peculiarities of EU law than some guy with two posts on a forum.
Video material has to pass through censorship boards though, even if adults are allowed to buy it. And governments reserve the right to ban content outright. A film that's made available to the UK may be banned in Germany, and that's where the conflict of open download economy versus regional censorship comes in. When you open an internet service, sure every EU customer can visit. But you're under no obligation to sell to those countries. That is, if I sell Plushies online to UK customers, I don't have to offer an overseas service to all of Europe. Delivery is to the UK only, in my choice. If someone from Germany wants to buy Plushies from me, tough! When it comes to download content, there's no restrictions on what you can download, but that's nothing to do with an open market policy! That's because governments have been able to reign in and shackle the internet! What iTunes did wrong was enable customers to visit from abroad, have distribution available to abroad, but refuse on grounds your card is registered in another country, IIRC. That'd be the same as me selling Plushies for £10 to people with a UK card, and £20 to people with a French card, and £25 for those with a German card, ignoring PnP. It's the price variation by card that's the issue, as there's no justification for it.
The case for MS's restrictions hasn't any real precedent AFAIK. There's copyright law, open market law, regional admin concerns, and so forth. There's no one law you can point to and say 'see? This one says they can/can't distribute anything anywhere'.
I love it when tech geeks try to talk about law
Similar threads
