Wow..some consoles actually make money
- Thread starter CaptainHowdy
- Start date
Captainhowdy,
You want to take your attitude somewhere else?
As mentioned before, and you chose to ignore it, there's MORE million sellers across all console platforms then there is ont eh PC platform each year.
last year over 100 titles on consles reached over 100,000 units sold. On the PC you'd be hard pressed to even find that. I don't know what sales chats you've looked at, but UT2k3 hasn't sold 1 million units from the last I heard. it's RARE for a PC title to break 1 million units sold. I don't really know why you're arguing this. it's been a trend for many years and continues.
Well that's just you I guess. i havn't seen one game on teh PC that was not copyable in some fashion. CD keys ar egood for the games tha tuse them, but It in now way helps cut down on piracy when hardly any games are using them.
You want to take your attitude somewhere else?
As mentioned before, and you chose to ignore it, there's MORE million sellers across all console platforms then there is ont eh PC platform each year.
last year over 100 titles on consles reached over 100,000 units sold. On the PC you'd be hard pressed to even find that. I don't know what sales chats you've looked at, but UT2k3 hasn't sold 1 million units from the last I heard. it's RARE for a PC title to break 1 million units sold. I don't really know why you're arguing this. it's been a trend for many years and continues.
Well that's just you I guess. i havn't seen one game on teh PC that was not copyable in some fashion. CD keys ar egood for the games tha tuse them, but It in now way helps cut down on piracy when hardly any games are using them.
Howdy, your problem is you're not seeing the whole picture. You can tackle the piracy arguement as long as you want, it still doesn't change that PC gaming is on a decline.
Piracy is just one of the many reasons. And best sellers are far more common than on the PC. What sells "good" on PC can be at best considered "okay" on consoles. Heh, those million sellers on the PC, I can probably count them with my hands. I doubt comparing million sellers from the PC will hold much weight towards your arguement.
BTW; does anyone have figures on the growth of the console industry?
Piracy is just one of the many reasons. And best sellers are far more common than on the PC. What sells "good" on PC can be at best considered "okay" on consoles. Heh, those million sellers on the PC, I can probably count them with my hands. I doubt comparing million sellers from the PC will hold much weight towards your arguement.
BTW; does anyone have figures on the growth of the console industry?
Pc gaming was at its peak around 98. Howdy, you are constantly refering to Half Life. How old is this game ?? It just shows what is the problem of the PC industry. Except Blizzard and Id, many talented devs have exited the PC industry for the console biz. No surprise, Ms launched the xbox. Fixed architectures are the way to go to embrace the massmarket.
Did some research and found actual numbers reporting the growth of the console industry in North America:
Software saw an increase in growth of 10% in the US alone. I don't expect Europe or Japan to be much different. On the contrary, care to remind me what growth the PC industry saw? Keep in mind, these numbers analyze the growth of 2001 to 2002. Now, imagine the growth over the last 7 years of both the console industry and the PC industry... surely, some bells should be ringing...
Link to the above article:
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/columnists/gmsv/5020812.htm
Software saw an increase in growth of 10% in the US alone. I don't expect Europe or Japan to be much different. On the contrary, care to remind me what growth the PC industry saw? Keep in mind, these numbers analyze the growth of 2001 to 2002. Now, imagine the growth over the last 7 years of both the console industry and the PC industry... surely, some bells should be ringing...
Link to the above article:
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/columnists/gmsv/5020812.htm
CaptainHowdy
Regular
I never argued that the sales were on a decline, I never said they sold more than console games, I believe what I am arguing, is that PC gaming is dieing, sales dropping 6% is hardly dieing, that ALWAYS happens when new consoles come out, not to mention the PC had a very stale year, it picked up near the end with BF1942, Splinter Cell(which is better than the Xbox version in pretty much every aspect), Unreal 2, etc, etc..
and PC will always be the major home to MMORPG's with thier ever changing content, do we need to compare Everquest to EQ:Online Adventures, I think if you want to you may walk away very ashamed..
and not to mention the Sim Enthusiasts like myself who spend $300 for a metal Clad Cougar Flight Stick, so certainly have no problems putting out $200 for a good video card, you will never find enjoyable versions of games like IL-2 Sturmovik on a console..
both have thier place in this world, Shooters, MMORPGs, Sims and such belong on PC. Platformers, Action, Sports etc belong on console, and I dont like crossing those lines.
Car Sales are down by double what PC gamesales are, look out, Cars will be obsolete!!!! they are dieing!!!!!
in fact, Pregnancys in America are down more as well, the Human Race is Doomed!!!!
and PC will always be the major home to MMORPG's with thier ever changing content, do we need to compare Everquest to EQ:Online Adventures, I think if you want to you may walk away very ashamed..
and not to mention the Sim Enthusiasts like myself who spend $300 for a metal Clad Cougar Flight Stick, so certainly have no problems putting out $200 for a good video card, you will never find enjoyable versions of games like IL-2 Sturmovik on a console..
both have thier place in this world, Shooters, MMORPGs, Sims and such belong on PC. Platformers, Action, Sports etc belong on console, and I dont like crossing those lines.
Car Sales are down by double what PC gamesales are, look out, Cars will be obsolete!!!! they are dieing!!!!!
in fact, Pregnancys in America are down more as well, the Human Race is Doomed!!!!
If you look at the growth of the PC gaming industry over the past 7 years, I think you will find that it's on a steady decline, even if by little. As the console industry increases in size, the PC industry is damned to decline. With the next generation of consoles, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo will enforce better online plans. With that, MMORPGs, Shooters and many PC type games will apear on consoles and will lead to an even greater decrease within the PC industry. Everything is pointing to that scenario happening.
As consoles get more and more complex feature-wise, they take away more and more of the PC market.
If consoles in 2005 (or 2010) have everything that a PC has (including top-notch processing power) but fixed hardware.. they'll be a better choice for any gamer. Xbox is a huge step in this direction.. while PS2/GCN are taking baby steps.
If consoles in 2005 (or 2010) have everything that a PC has (including top-notch processing power) but fixed hardware.. they'll be a better choice for any gamer. Xbox is a huge step in this direction.. while PS2/GCN are taking baby steps.
Quincy
What I'm saying is Metroid Prime could have been a big hyped game with casual gamers with the right advertising. The example of a ad I gave in my first post would have been the right sort of advertising IMO. Also I heard that the ad campaign only focused on the time of release then basically stopped. That's not good enough IMO.
As for attracting the largest amount of casual gamers to GC. If its true then fine, but I haven't seen any reason to think that. This game should have attracted loads of new gamers to GC, it had that potential. Just look at its review scores. Also the game is perfect for the casual gamers, great looking, dark and moody. I just don't think it fullfilled its potential in selling GC's. The reason for that, to me, is clear. They used the wrong sort of advertising and didn't keep the ads going long enough.
What I'm saying is Metroid Prime could have been a big hyped game with casual gamers with the right advertising. The example of a ad I gave in my first post would have been the right sort of advertising IMO. Also I heard that the ad campaign only focused on the time of release then basically stopped. That's not good enough IMO.
As for attracting the largest amount of casual gamers to GC. If its true then fine, but I haven't seen any reason to think that. This game should have attracted loads of new gamers to GC, it had that potential. Just look at its review scores. Also the game is perfect for the casual gamers, great looking, dark and moody. I just don't think it fullfilled its potential in selling GC's. The reason for that, to me, is clear. They used the wrong sort of advertising and didn't keep the ads going long enough.
Teasy,
It "was" a big hyped game with the casual gamers. As i mentioned before did did incredibly well considering the perception of the gamecube amoung gamers (that perception being that it's more for younger gamers). The game sold a million copies already, and you're not happy with that. Well for one thing nitnendo would have to refocus it's "console advertising to get rid of the perception I mentiond above before you'll see many more casual gamers approaching the system.
Well whomever told you that was totally wrong. It was advertised on TV before the release, and I still occasionally see the ads now. They haven't stopped yet.
I don't see how you 'could" see that. The game hasn't been released in your region yet, has it? So you're basing your assumption purely off the sales numbers, and not seeing the advertising take effect?
Who's to say it hasn't done that "more" then any other titles nintendo has released for GC. I think they could have advertised it until people were sick of seeing the game, but it wouldn't necessarily attract more "casual gamers" when casual gamers have a certain perception of the GC as a "kiddie system". it doesn't help when nintendo works with McDonalds to put marketing into happy meals and owns properties like pokemon. It's all about the perception.
I think you're hitting this from the wrong direction. If you want more casual gamers, then you need to focus the advertising on the console itself. I think metroid sold VERY well and was a good game. however I think a lot of the attraction was from people that played previous metroid games witg a small portion of casual picking the title up. If this game didn't have the metroid name attached too it, no matter how good it was, I doubt it would have sold as well as it has. It sold as well as it did becuase Nintendo doing a good job.
It "was" a big hyped game with the casual gamers. As i mentioned before did did incredibly well considering the perception of the gamecube amoung gamers (that perception being that it's more for younger gamers). The game sold a million copies already, and you're not happy with that. Well for one thing nitnendo would have to refocus it's "console advertising to get rid of the perception I mentiond above before you'll see many more casual gamers approaching the system.
Well whomever told you that was totally wrong. It was advertised on TV before the release, and I still occasionally see the ads now. They haven't stopped yet.
I don't see how you 'could" see that. The game hasn't been released in your region yet, has it? So you're basing your assumption purely off the sales numbers, and not seeing the advertising take effect?
Who's to say it hasn't done that "more" then any other titles nintendo has released for GC. I think they could have advertised it until people were sick of seeing the game, but it wouldn't necessarily attract more "casual gamers" when casual gamers have a certain perception of the GC as a "kiddie system". it doesn't help when nintendo works with McDonalds to put marketing into happy meals and owns properties like pokemon. It's all about the perception.
I think you're hitting this from the wrong direction. If you want more casual gamers, then you need to focus the advertising on the console itself. I think metroid sold VERY well and was a good game. however I think a lot of the attraction was from people that played previous metroid games witg a small portion of casual picking the title up. If this game didn't have the metroid name attached too it, no matter how good it was, I doubt it would have sold as well as it has. It sold as well as it did becuase Nintendo doing a good job.
Quincy
I didn't say I wasn't happy with how it sold, it sold excellently considering all the factors (advertising, userbase ect). I said I think it could have had much more hype around it and sold more consoles.
I know it hasn't been released here yet. But I don't have to live in the U.S to get an idea of what people think of a game. As I asked before, do you hear people where you are raving about this game like they did about Halo? That's a serious question.
Also if you think that MP has been selling GC's to casual gamers then why do you think that?
About the perception of GC. Surely the main way to change that perception is to advertise the hell out of the right kind of games, like MP.
BTW if the game is still being advertised then ok, I didn't know that. Although I still don't think they used the right sort of advert.
I didn't say I wasn't happy with how it sold, it sold excellently considering all the factors (advertising, userbase ect). I said I think it could have had much more hype around it and sold more consoles.
I know it hasn't been released here yet. But I don't have to live in the U.S to get an idea of what people think of a game. As I asked before, do you hear people where you are raving about this game like they did about Halo? That's a serious question.
Also if you think that MP has been selling GC's to casual gamers then why do you think that?
About the perception of GC. Surely the main way to change that perception is to advertise the hell out of the right kind of games, like MP.
BTW if the game is still being advertised then ok, I didn't know that. Although I still don't think they used the right sort of advert.
Teasy,
Well yes i have, When it came out people were raving about it like mad. Things have died off of course, but there's a difference between the way this game plays and the way Halo plays. halo is all about combat, and metroid prime isn't. you don't have the same type of interacting with the AI, so there's some things that aren't as memorable. usually people that keep playing halo or talking about it, just love the combat.
Becuase of how fast it has sold, and the amout of advertising it did have. i have non gamer friends asking about the game, saying it looked cool. i told them it was on the gamecube and they were like 'oh'...
it's not just the games, it's the consle. You can advertise the hell out of game (like conkers), but that didn't make it sell better on the N64. When the platform it self was largley regarded as kiddie, when compared to the PSX. There's a reson why the balck gamecubes sold better then others. peopel didn't want the funky colors and the handle on it just made things worse.
have you seen the adverts?
Well yes i have, When it came out people were raving about it like mad. Things have died off of course, but there's a difference between the way this game plays and the way Halo plays. halo is all about combat, and metroid prime isn't. you don't have the same type of interacting with the AI, so there's some things that aren't as memorable. usually people that keep playing halo or talking about it, just love the combat.
Becuase of how fast it has sold, and the amout of advertising it did have. i have non gamer friends asking about the game, saying it looked cool. i told them it was on the gamecube and they were like 'oh'...
it's not just the games, it's the consle. You can advertise the hell out of game (like conkers), but that didn't make it sell better on the N64. When the platform it self was largley regarded as kiddie, when compared to the PSX. There's a reson why the balck gamecubes sold better then others. peopel didn't want the funky colors and the handle on it just made things worse.
have you seen the adverts?
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Honestly Teasy, and this isn't a loaded answer: Metroid Prime isn't really on too many casual gamers radar over here. For instance, I live with 3 gamers and another 7 come over on a regular basis to play games on my HDTV. I have DC, Xbox, GCN. A few of them have PS2s and one or two of them have Xbox.
I can't shake their image of Nintendo as being kiddy. I show them games like Metroid and Eternal Darkness, but they just shrug and say: "That's cool", but they aren't excited enough to buy a Cube. For one thing, for those without a system yet (about half of the 10 people), they don't like the lack of DVD.
Also, on the Xbox front the most exciting thing is Xbox Live, although they all like Splinter Cell and Halo too. Halo makes people want to buy an Xbox, Splinter Cell does too, but it's not at the same level as a hardware seller (which is probably why MS was fine with letting it go). They also play a TON of NFL 2K3.
While NFL2K3 is available on the Cube, for some reason people just don't seem to notice. It might have to do with the fact that probably a good 30% of Cube owners (at least) are hardcore gamers like myself that own multiple systems and just bought it for the Nintendo titles. This means that no one ever sees me (and others like me) playing non-Nintendo games on the Cube. This reinforces the idea that the Cube is for Nintendo titles.
Nintendo has a real image problem with the 20+ year old casual crowd. They need to rectify this if they want to continue on in the hardware market. As I said, eventually casuals will be fine with Rayman 3 and Halo instead of Mario and Metroid (as one example). In some ways I think we're already there...
CaptainHowdy
As for PC gaming - it's retreating into a niche. The only things left are The Sims (and a few other simulations), RTS, MMORPG and FPS. FPS has essentially started moving over to consoles as of Halo. Unreal Championship suffered for being in the shadow of Halo and because of some major deficiencies like framerate and the lack of vehicles. It'll still sell 500k copies though.
MMORPG will eventually flourish on consoles as well, especially with good voice-over-IP support. Simulation games and RTS are somewhat trickier, but they'll start moving over once new control methods have been perfected. An example - giving verbal commands to your units in Age of Empires, for instance. This probably won't happen until 2007 or 2008.
Will PC gaming "DIE" completely? Maybe not, but who's going to fund top quality PC game development when less and less users are buying the software?
I agree with whoever said that PC gaming peaked in about 1998. This was the golden age for PC gaming because the average hardware setup was better than the PSX for about 3 years (1997 - 2000) before the introduction of the PS2 in 2001. Now we're getting to a point in the 2003 where the average PC setup will be better than Xbox. This will be true for just 2003 and 2004. Then we'll have Xbox 2 and PS3, which will probably eclipse the PC for most of the next generation (probably only one year of PC hardware superiority). Don't forget that I'm talking about the average setup, which is the one that PC developers make games for.
This also ignores the fact that we're beginning to reach diminishing returns on graphics. The artistic side is so important now that you need a huge art team to realize the hardware's potential. This further limits the PC, because even the big sellers on PC don't have large budgets.
I'll stop there, but it should be pretty obvious that there are SO many reasons why PC gaming is ultimately doomed that I'm surprised we're having this discussion. By 2006 it will be a niche and by 2010 it will be miniscule compared to Xbox 3 and PS4 (or whatever else is around). HDTVs, new innovative controllers, network gaming, and voice control will pretty much guarantee console gaming dominance and PC gaming decline.
I can't shake their image of Nintendo as being kiddy. I show them games like Metroid and Eternal Darkness, but they just shrug and say: "That's cool", but they aren't excited enough to buy a Cube. For one thing, for those without a system yet (about half of the 10 people), they don't like the lack of DVD.
Also, on the Xbox front the most exciting thing is Xbox Live, although they all like Splinter Cell and Halo too. Halo makes people want to buy an Xbox, Splinter Cell does too, but it's not at the same level as a hardware seller (which is probably why MS was fine with letting it go). They also play a TON of NFL 2K3.
While NFL2K3 is available on the Cube, for some reason people just don't seem to notice. It might have to do with the fact that probably a good 30% of Cube owners (at least) are hardcore gamers like myself that own multiple systems and just bought it for the Nintendo titles. This means that no one ever sees me (and others like me) playing non-Nintendo games on the Cube. This reinforces the idea that the Cube is for Nintendo titles.
Nintendo has a real image problem with the 20+ year old casual crowd. They need to rectify this if they want to continue on in the hardware market. As I said, eventually casuals will be fine with Rayman 3 and Halo instead of Mario and Metroid (as one example). In some ways I think we're already there...
CaptainHowdy
As for PC gaming - it's retreating into a niche. The only things left are The Sims (and a few other simulations), RTS, MMORPG and FPS. FPS has essentially started moving over to consoles as of Halo. Unreal Championship suffered for being in the shadow of Halo and because of some major deficiencies like framerate and the lack of vehicles. It'll still sell 500k copies though.
MMORPG will eventually flourish on consoles as well, especially with good voice-over-IP support. Simulation games and RTS are somewhat trickier, but they'll start moving over once new control methods have been perfected. An example - giving verbal commands to your units in Age of Empires, for instance. This probably won't happen until 2007 or 2008.
Will PC gaming "DIE" completely? Maybe not, but who's going to fund top quality PC game development when less and less users are buying the software?
I agree with whoever said that PC gaming peaked in about 1998. This was the golden age for PC gaming because the average hardware setup was better than the PSX for about 3 years (1997 - 2000) before the introduction of the PS2 in 2001. Now we're getting to a point in the 2003 where the average PC setup will be better than Xbox. This will be true for just 2003 and 2004. Then we'll have Xbox 2 and PS3, which will probably eclipse the PC for most of the next generation (probably only one year of PC hardware superiority). Don't forget that I'm talking about the average setup, which is the one that PC developers make games for.
This also ignores the fact that we're beginning to reach diminishing returns on graphics. The artistic side is so important now that you need a huge art team to realize the hardware's potential. This further limits the PC, because even the big sellers on PC don't have large budgets.
I'll stop there, but it should be pretty obvious that there are SO many reasons why PC gaming is ultimately doomed that I'm surprised we're having this discussion. By 2006 it will be a niche and by 2010 it will be miniscule compared to Xbox 3 and PS4 (or whatever else is around). HDTVs, new innovative controllers, network gaming, and voice control will pretty much guarantee console gaming dominance and PC gaming decline.
Quincy
But what gives a console that sort of image? Its certain games associated with Nintendo, Mario, Zelda ect. If games give a console a certain image then the easiest way to change that image is through games AFAICS. Counter the Mario's and Zelda's with the Metroid Prime's RE's and ED's. Its not good enough to just release those games either (although it can help). Everyone knows Mario and Zelda is on GC, because its a Nintendo console. But not everyone knows about MP, ED, RE ect. Nintendo need to show the world that those games exist and hype the crap out of them. Do that and soon enough GC's image would change.
As for conker, I think its main problem was that it arrived as N64 died.
Yeah, I saw it on IGN before the ad campaign started. I did like the ad, but I think my example of a ad would have hyped the game more.
Johnny
That's the impression I get, and I think that's because they didn't create the right sort of ads for the game.
Yep casual gamers are funny people. It takes more then a good/great game to make them buy a console. It takes hype, Metroid Prime and ED are both the right sort of games to get the hype, it just needs the right ads to back up the games.
I think they always have been as long as its the hyped game, in the past Mario was but its not anymore. If you have a poor platformer vs Mario and the poor platformer is the hyped game then it'll sell more to casuals then Mario.
But what gives a console that sort of image? Its certain games associated with Nintendo, Mario, Zelda ect. If games give a console a certain image then the easiest way to change that image is through games AFAICS. Counter the Mario's and Zelda's with the Metroid Prime's RE's and ED's. Its not good enough to just release those games either (although it can help). Everyone knows Mario and Zelda is on GC, because its a Nintendo console. But not everyone knows about MP, ED, RE ect. Nintendo need to show the world that those games exist and hype the crap out of them. Do that and soon enough GC's image would change.
As for conker, I think its main problem was that it arrived as N64 died.
Yeah, I saw it on IGN before the ad campaign started. I did like the ad, but I think my example of a ad would have hyped the game more.
Johnny
That's the impression I get, and I think that's because they didn't create the right sort of ads for the game.
Yep casual gamers are funny people. It takes more then a good/great game to make them buy a console. It takes hype, Metroid Prime and ED are both the right sort of games to get the hype, it just needs the right ads to back up the games.
I think they always have been as long as its the hyped game, in the past Mario was but its not anymore. If you have a poor platformer vs Mario and the poor platformer is the hyped game then it'll sell more to casuals then Mario.
Blade,
That was just my point. Advertising a game designed for adult gamers on the N64 was a bad idea, since the N64 was targetted toward a younger demographic. The ads didn't and wouldn't help change this.
Conkers actually did have lot's of ads in print and on TV. I can't help but remember the commercials since they caused quite a stir amoung so many non gamers. This game wasn't published by Nintendo. It only had the Rare logo on the box.
That was just my point. Advertising a game designed for adult gamers on the N64 was a bad idea, since the N64 was targetted toward a younger demographic. The ads didn't and wouldn't help change this.
Conkers actually did have lot's of ads in print and on TV. I can't help but remember the commercials since they caused quite a stir amoung so many non gamers. This game wasn't published by Nintendo. It only had the Rare logo on the box.
THere are two reasons why pc gaming isn't doing as well as it should.
First is cost. To get the best you have to shell out money .. lots of it
second is coding for the lowest hardware aka tnt2-geforemx.
Pc gaming would take everything by storm if the new games would take advantage of the new cards. An example is. Doom 3 made to be playable on the gefore 2. What if it was made to work only on the r300 and up. The graphics would be amazing. The problem is they wont make the game for this setup. Which is both its saveing grace and its nail in the coffin. Ati has sold over 1 million dx9 cards already ... yet there are no games on the horizon. Thats the main problem. The market is there though for it to be bigger than the console market. A few things just need to change.
First is cost. To get the best you have to shell out money .. lots of it
second is coding for the lowest hardware aka tnt2-geforemx.
Pc gaming would take everything by storm if the new games would take advantage of the new cards. An example is. Doom 3 made to be playable on the gefore 2. What if it was made to work only on the r300 and up. The graphics would be amazing. The problem is they wont make the game for this setup. Which is both its saveing grace and its nail in the coffin. Ati has sold over 1 million dx9 cards already ... yet there are no games on the horizon. Thats the main problem. The market is there though for it to be bigger than the console market. A few things just need to change.
CaptainHowdy
Regular
thats the other reason PC games dont sell like console games, which is a perk and downfall at the same time, when is the last time you have seen a PC game advertised on TV? developers make a game with no license fees, no dev kits to buy, they dont have to play jack to advertise it, its pure profit...
Selling over 100,000 is hardly Niche, if you say vs consoles, sure they have more over 100k, but if you go against select consoles, PC has more million sellers than XBox, it has more than GC, PS2 is just a freak of Nature(especially since GTA3 was twice as good on PC)
Selling over 100,000 is hardly Niche, if you say vs consoles, sure they have more over 100k, but if you go against select consoles, PC has more million sellers than XBox, it has more than GC, PS2 is just a freak of Nature(especially since GTA3 was twice as good on PC)
The problem you're looking at is the market, which isn't adapting as quick as technology is and probably never will because it's very expensive and is far less cost effective than consoles ever will be. The relevant question is, will publishers ever choose to push the PC industry over the console one? No. This is unlikely to change and is likely to lead to the further decrease of this industry.
That's why their all developing for PC right? Seriously, you should really read again what has been said above...