Wow..some consoles actually make money
- Thread starter CaptainHowdy
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CaptainHowdy
Regular
Tagrineth said:
exactly, I HATE long cutscenes, I just want to play my game, Metroid Prime has a deeper story than most, but if you care about it, you have to read it, the genius thing about it, it doesnt FORCE you to do anything, unlike many other games, you get it if you want it, you miss it if you dont.
Johnny:
Bad story: Platformers have never relied on story at all.
Goofy cinematics: Platformers have never relied on cinematics either. They're nice to have (and I admit that SMS' are arguably the most embarrassing things I've ever had to sit through) but for any non-superficial gamer.. there's no need for Hollywood-level cinematics. It's just icing on the cake.
Fruity premise: By fruity, I assume you mean "innocent" or "cutesy". If I ignored every game that had a fruity (in your definition) premise, I'd have missed out big time.
About MP: Tag is right, excessive scanning is unessential. Your opinion doesn't necessarily reflect all casual gamers' either. The game was fantastic and for somebody looking for a back-story in a gameplay-driven game.. the Scan visor was great. I loved scanning the hundreds of objects/areas and reading the details. Did I have to do it? As Tag said, no damned way. Did I want to? Yes. I loved reading the Chozo Lore, too. I like how they integrated it into the game, along with concrete references to the first Metroid game.
Casual gamers looking for a good time should look into MP. Sadly, a fraction of the GCN's user-base has purchased the game.. and millions of gamers shrug off the system entirely for being kiddy. (among other things) I don't see it. Nintendo really has to work on their image IMO (not their games like you think) and start marketing aggressively compared to what they're doing now. The multitude of solid 3rd-party games coming this year will help Nintendo stay in the game with MS.. but they need to gain back mind share.
Bad story: Platformers have never relied on story at all.
Goofy cinematics: Platformers have never relied on cinematics either. They're nice to have (and I admit that SMS' are arguably the most embarrassing things I've ever had to sit through) but for any non-superficial gamer.. there's no need for Hollywood-level cinematics. It's just icing on the cake.
Fruity premise: By fruity, I assume you mean "innocent" or "cutesy". If I ignored every game that had a fruity (in your definition) premise, I'd have missed out big time.
About MP: Tag is right, excessive scanning is unessential. Your opinion doesn't necessarily reflect all casual gamers' either. The game was fantastic and for somebody looking for a back-story in a gameplay-driven game.. the Scan visor was great. I loved scanning the hundreds of objects/areas and reading the details. Did I have to do it? As Tag said, no damned way. Did I want to? Yes. I loved reading the Chozo Lore, too. I like how they integrated it into the game, along with concrete references to the first Metroid game.
Casual gamers looking for a good time should look into MP. Sadly, a fraction of the GCN's user-base has purchased the game.. and millions of gamers shrug off the system entirely for being kiddy. (among other things) I don't see it. Nintendo really has to work on their image IMO (not their games like you think) and start marketing aggressively compared to what they're doing now. The multitude of solid 3rd-party games coming this year will help Nintendo stay in the game with MS.. but they need to gain back mind share.
Metroid does not have a story, really. It´s pretty much text rmabling about how the chozo are decaying, and a couple of paragraphs of important facts. I do not know if that can be called a story (I would even call DMC superior in the story department). Since there are no characters there´s no such thing as character development either, essential in a good story.
Really, I don´t understand what´s the GCN fans fascination with that aspect.
Really, I don´t understand what´s the GCN fans fascination with that aspect.
Almasy said:
Uh... you're an idiot. You say there's no story, then immediately afterwards you describe just what the story IS. It isn't supposed to be some epic, unimaginable story with interesting twists... it's very straightforward, and yet it isn't told directly at all - it's slowly revealed in blurbs. You have to have something resembling a brain to piece it together though...
There's plenty of story there. Not an unnecessarily complex movie storyline *looks at Hideo Kojima* but enough storyline to intrigue somebody. I'd say the coolness factor was more in the environment detail, though.
You read about something in the Chozo Lore that you can see in the Chozo Ruins.. like the fact that they built structures around the natural environment instead of in place of it. It's all relevant information to an explorer, or archeologist.
You read about something in the Chozo Lore that you can see in the Chozo Ruins.. like the fact that they built structures around the natural environment instead of in place of it. It's all relevant information to an explorer, or archeologist.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Listen, the facts are there in front of you guys: Casual gamers see something lacking in Nintendo's lineup or they would be lining up to get Cubes at essentially $99. They aren't. I've outlined some possible reasons. You don't have to agree, but I remember when the Dreamcast/Sega was just one hit away from casual gamer acceptance. This hit never came. Or more to the point: It came and no one cared.
PS: Remember when Shenmue, TD: Lemans, MSR, and PSO came out to 9 and 9.5/10 reviews from every site on the planet? It didn't change the DC's fate. Now we have a similar situation with SMS and MP. Casual gamers just don't see things the same way as Matt from IGN...
PS: Remember when Shenmue, TD: Lemans, MSR, and PSO came out to 9 and 9.5/10 reviews from every site on the planet? It didn't change the DC's fate. Now we have a similar situation with SMS and MP. Casual gamers just don't see things the same way as Matt from IGN...
Blade said:
I really think you´re stretching it there Blade, and you too Tagrineth. The story in Metroid doesn´t go much more beyond a bit of backstory and chozo lores recicling they found Samus and they´re vanishing.
Oh, I forgot about Ridley, (that now he is metallic), and that they´re experimenting with a substance. And a big Metroid that absorbs weapons.
I still wouldn´t call that a story, that would be like saying UT2003 has a good story (remember the character profiles and description of the arenas? They´re pretty much as good and informative as what Metroid Prime has). Metroid Prime is about the atmosphere, and that´s about it.
A story revolves around characters and the events surrounding them. MP basically has a bit of backstory and loads of enemy profiles. Play a console RPG or Metal Gear, I personally haven´t found the stories in PC RPGs to be compelling, but those still have better stories than what MP has.
Almasy said:
I never said that Prime's sotry was grand, sweeping, or epic... quite the opposite, in my last post in this thread I said it's very straightforward.
Nobody said Prime's story can compare to Metal Gear's or any console RPG's. It doesn't try to by any means. You're the only one who's making the comparison.
All I said was that it exists, that it's better than you'd expect, especially considering the game genre, and it does take a little reading and thought to get the whole thing.
My post was not directed at you actually, but I have found people that think MP´s story was great or grand (and for proof, on IGN, MP was the runner up for best story in a GCN game by readers).
I hate to sound elitist, but what I was referring to is that I think that MP´s story is so basic that I don´t think it can really be called a story (afterall, it doesn´t even have characters ).
BTW, MP´s story doesn´t really take much reading to get. It´s quite neutral and certainly unimportant to the game.
I hate to sound elitist, but what I was referring to is that I think that MP´s story is so basic that I don´t think it can really be called a story (afterall, it doesn´t even have characters
).BTW, MP´s story doesn´t really take much reading to get.
It´s quite neutral and certainly unimportant to the game.Oh, and Johnny:
Bad marketing, low hype, negative word of mouth**, and casuals can only afford one console*. There you go.
*
*
...
FYI, * = PS2. I think the casual section of the market is too busy buying GTA:VC and The Sims to notice the rightful 2002 GOTY pass them by, waving its arm-blaster and rolling into a ball on its way to th' bargain bin. BTW, don't you dislike MP too?
** My GCN-owning co-worker tells me that his buddy at GameStop actually dissuades people from buying GCN. I was shocked, rather appalled from hearing this. He says that this GS employee actually says that GCN sucks to certain customers.
WTF? Wow, maybe that's why there's a big gap between Xbox and GCN now in the US. People like him..
Bad marketing, low hype, negative word of mouth**, and casuals can only afford one console*. There you go.
*
*
...
FYI, * = PS2. I think the casual section of the market is too busy buying GTA:VC and The Sims to notice the rightful 2002 GOTY pass them by, waving its arm-blaster and rolling into a ball on its way to th' bargain bin. BTW, don't you dislike MP too?
** My GCN-owning co-worker tells me that his buddy at GameStop actually dissuades people from buying GCN. I was shocked, rather appalled from hearing this. He says that this GS employee actually says that GCN sucks to certain customers.
WTF? Wow, maybe that's why there's a big gap between Xbox and GCN now in the US. People like him..
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Yeah, we Dreamcast fanbois used to say the same thing: It's an EB workers conspiracy. If only the masses knew about Dreamcast. If only Sega had marketing... It was all bullshit. I acknowledge that now and I try to be more objective, while being honest about my own tastes (ie. I prefer the Xbox experience to any other, but respect a lot of PS2 games, and like/own the Gamecube).
Nintendo spent somewhere around $200 million on marketing last year. Everyone knows about the Cube, they just don't care to own one.
I've enjoyed Metroid Prime. I have some issues with the controls as everyone here knows, but I still think it's 9/10 game.
BTW: Splinter Cell won game of the year at the AIAS (which is as close to official as it gets).
Nintendo is losing the casual gamer more and more with each passing generation. Sooner or later they will be in the same boat as Sega - reaping huge mega 9/10 reviews, but with miniscule market penetration.
Of course, Nintendo is smart enough to realize that they can't sit out of the marketplace for 3 years and expect to come back and compete. As soon as they smell the death of their hardware, they will go 3rd party where they can still do well by their fans. I still think the Cube is Nintendo's last console. The investment their putting into CubeNext is merely a hedge in case they decide to go for it. The way the numbers are now, I doubt they'll be able to do so.
Nintendo spent somewhere around $200 million on marketing last year. Everyone knows about the Cube, they just don't care to own one.
I've enjoyed Metroid Prime. I have some issues with the controls as everyone here knows, but I still think it's 9/10 game.
BTW: Splinter Cell won game of the year at the AIAS (which is as close to official as it gets).
Nintendo is losing the casual gamer more and more with each passing generation. Sooner or later they will be in the same boat as Sega - reaping huge mega 9/10 reviews, but with miniscule market penetration.
Of course, Nintendo is smart enough to realize that they can't sit out of the marketplace for 3 years and expect to come back and compete. As soon as they smell the death of their hardware, they will go 3rd party where they can still do well by their fans. I still think the Cube is Nintendo's last console. The investment their putting into CubeNext is merely a hedge in case they decide to go for it. The way the numbers are now, I doubt they'll be able to do so.
"bad marketing" -
We're talking about NINTENDO here, not just some newcomer that no-one knows.
"low hype" - maybe if the software wouldn't be lacking, we'd have some hype?
"negative word of mouth" - same point as above.
"casuals cany only afford one console" -
come on Blade. Since launch, Sony basically sold their console at the original price of $300 to casuals and now that they're all at least half their price, they can still only afford one? Maybe if the software wouldn't be lacking and the GameCube would have mass market apeal, maybe they wouldn't need to just stick with one console.
I think it was more or less a solid fact even for Nintendo fans that the GameCube obviously doesn't have that mass market apeal. Hell, even Xbox is getting there and it's definately going to show in future sales.
Steve Dave Part Deux
Newcomer
I think Nintendo spent more like 75 million on advertising. It could have be less though.
It's not lack of recognition, it's consumer perception.
It's not lack of recognition, it's consumer perception.
Aye.
Phil: Buying a console is more of an investment than just the initial hardware cost. You need games, accessories..
PS2 is ultra-popular.
Many of those who once owned PSX/N64 moved on to PS2 (partially due to incredible hype) and it's served them well.
Why buy a GameCube (or Xbox for that matter) when you already have a PS2 that (while not having all of the best games) easily facilitates your entertainment needs? It'll cost you hundreds more to buy a GameCube or Xbox that currently have no more than 50 really buyable games between them. It's not worth the investment unless you're either hardcore or semi-hardcore.
It doesn't matter. Sony is the big thing in the casual eye. Nintendo is a known name, but it's not 1988 anymore.
Software quality, or software quantity? Excluding the majority of the 3rd-party stuff, I'd say that quality is fine. Quantity, however, is a problem. While Nintendo has what.. 180 games out.. they come in bunches. There've been lots of strange droughts. I'm waiting for March just to find something worth renting.. nevermind buying. This won't likely be an issue later this year, however..
People bash the GameCube just for the family-friendly approach and the lack of any really controversial games. Word spreads. Soon enough, everybody and their brother is telling people "Hey, I heard GCN sucks.. get a PS2. It has GTA!"
Metroid Prime is one example of a game with barely any casual gamer hype, yet its most sites and mags GOTY. Poor software is not the problem with lack of hype for GC. The lack of hype is mostly due to lack of advertising and bad advertising for those games.
People who aren't more hardcore gamers have probably never heard of Metroid Prime. While games like Halo and GTA3 got/get constant adverts Metroid Prime had a small (by comparison) ad compaign that lasted a few weeks AFAIR. Even then while the advert was good it wasn't the right sort of advert to make MP apeal to casual gamers. It was a cool advert that fans of the series loved and most people probably liked when they saw it. However it wasn't right to create widespread hype with casual gamers. It really annoys me too because its soooo easily to make a ad that the casual gamers would eat up.
First off you need plenty of either in-game action or FMV that a casual gamer will mistake for in-game (not the sort of thing that was in the MP ad that Nintendo did). They want to see the game. Then you need to hire that guy who does all the film trailers, you know the one with the deep wierd sounding voice. Or someone similar.
Now you start off with Samus entering the space station. As she walks through everything is silent appart from her footstaps. The narrator starts:
"Metroid Prime is quite simply the game of 2002 - says GameSpot"
*Clunk Clunk Clunk go Samus's Footsteps*
"Its like the best game from 10 years in the future fell through a time warp - says EGM"
*Clunk Clunk Clunk go Samu's Footsteps*
"Metroid Prime is an absolute masterpiece, a modern classic, and the most fun I've ever had playing a videogame - says gamers.com"
Samus hears a large screeching noise (the sort of thing you'd hear on an old boat that's slowly collapsing from the water pressure) and a clunk sound as the ship shackes. Samus stops for a moment as she's knocked slightly off her stride. The narrator has also stopped for a moment.
Samus starts walking again and the narrator says "In [enter days to release]... you'll find out..."
Samus hears a noise and turns with her gun ready turning her head back and forth looking for the enemy, the atmosphere is now very tense, and after a pause the narrator continues "that in space"..
Samus turns back after a seconds pause and again after a slight pause the narrator continues.. "nobody"
Ooze drops onto Samus's visor and the narrator says "can here you screem". She looks up quickly, startled, and sees a nasty and very big drooling monster. The monster screeches and drops on Samus as she fires up at it (this all happens very quickly).
Her visor goes to a fuzzy screen (with the appropriate fuzzy noise to accompany it) and then dark (with the picture first turning into a thin line then a dot.. you know the generic turning off a TV look).
Finally you fade in the words Metroid Prime from left to right with spooky lighting and a bit of smoke, and that noise they used constantly on The Mothman Prophesies and the narrator says, as slowly, deep and pronounced as possible "Metroid Prime......".
Then the only on Nintendo GameCube bit apears and its the end.
You get the idea, a load of overused tripe basically
But that's exactly what gets casual gamers excited. Play that ad enough times and Metroid Prime would have gotten the hype it deserved.Oh and incase anyone wants to suggest I'm somehow defending Nintendo in this post. Nintendo has nobody to blame but themselves for lack of hype. Because they are responsible for marketing the console and its games. They're even responsible for advertising games not made by themselves to some degree, because those games being successful can only help there console sell. Sadly they don't seem to see that
