Windows tablets

[Silent_Buddha]

Half of the event will be about Windows Phone aka Windows 10 Mobile (which is already available to anybody through the Windows Insiders program)

I'd like to see a partner offer an Intel x86 based phone with HDMI/DP output. And then see whether Windows 10 Mobile could run desktop applications when connected to a secondary display. I haven't been keeping up with Win10m, so have no clue whether it will have that ability or not.

To me, that would be the holy grail of phones.

Regards,
SB

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Well, now that Apple has launched a Surface Pro clone (iPad Pro) and Google has launched a Surface Pro clone (Pixel C), it's time for the Windows OEMs to release their take on Surface Pro clones.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2988...-canvas-a-quad-core-surface-pro-3-killer.html

I must say it's a pretty impressive device for those that are more often plugged in versus on the go. It has the same 3:2 aspect ratio as the Surface Pros, but less resolution than the new Pro 4s. It's also a 12.3" screen.

It's more powerful packing a quad core 45 watt processor, but also a lot heavier (almost a pound heavier), a lot bulkier, with far less battery life (7 hours). I like their take on a keyboard "cover," however.

It's also a lot more expensive than the new Surface Pro 4.

It could be a nice alternative for those that need even more power than the Surface Pro 4's offer. And that might be a draw for their primary target audience, content creators.

I hadn't heard of it until I started looking at some articles written about the SP4. Interestingly enough, according to VAIO, they aren't planning to compete with the SP4, but designed this device to compete with Apple for content creators.

I think they missed an opportunity by sticking to Haswell, however.

Oh and Lenovo has a even clonier clone of the Surface Pro.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2980...ooks-and-feels-like-a-surface-but-better.html

O.O Almost the exact same physical specs as the Surface Pro 3, including a similar display, a similar kickstand and a similar type cover. Microsoft is apparently rumored to be encouraging OEMs to make clones of the Surface Pro, so this isn't all that surprising.

And apparently Dell and HP are working on their Surface Pro clones as well. Although it appears Dell is planning to go with a 16:9 (booooo) 4k screen but will feature a similar kickstand.

So, lots of options for people that want a Surface Pro but don't want to buy a Surface Pro.

Regards,
SB

 

[Silent_Buddha]

And HP's take on the Surface Pro clone...

http://www.slashgear.com/hp-spectre-x2-hands-on-a-4g-homage-to-surface-07408664/
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2987...erformance-without-the-surface-pro-price.html

This one is pretty interesting. Same 3:2 aspect ratio (12 inch display), but it goes with the resolution of the Surface 3 (1920x1280). Some things that set it apart. The keyboard is aluminum with a cloth backing and attaches in exactly the same way as the Surface Type Covers. It has a realsense depth camera system on the back. It uses a metal frame variable position kickstand that operates similarly to the Surface Pro's variable kickstand panel, but can't tilt back as far. It's slightly heavier, but looks nice.

And on the plus side, it has 2x USB Type C connectors. It also uses the Type C connector to charge the device. Eastman should like that. No mention if you can output to a monitor with the USB Type C ports, but it'd be nice if you could. The article also mentions it uses a Wacom pen, so that's potentially a bonus as well. Although it appears to be an active (powered) pen. Ah well.

Its base price is 100 USD cheaper with type cover, but the pen is an optional accessory instead of being included.

If you don't need the high PPI display or build quality and materials of the Surface Pro 4, this is a pretty nice alternative, IMO. Oh, it's also limited to only Core-M Skylake CPUs.

So many good Windows Tablets coming out now. It's a good time to be a Windows user.

Also note this applies to the Spectre 12 x2 which is significantly different from the other Spectre x2 models available which are not Surface Pro clones.

Regards,
SB

 

[eastmen]

it is interesting but I belive you can only get the m3 with it.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

it is interesting but I belive you can only get the m3 with it.

It'll have options for Core m3, m5, and m7 according to what I've read.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 13524]

That VAIO Z Canvas is ridiculous.
So they announce now a tablet using a 2.5 year-old Haswell 4770HQ, when the equivalent Broadwell 5750HQ using an updated GPU and similar price has been available for 4 months and the quad-core Skylake H range with a GT4e is getting released within weeks?
And all this for a premium product no less.

No wonder Sony got rid of the VAIO division. Their execution seems terrible.

 

[davygee]

Out of those clones, the HP looks the nicest aesthetically. Don't like the Lenovo or VAIO at all.

 

[entity279]

Gee, I'd be seriously thinking about an S4 Pro if it had LTE onboard.
Is this a strange desire to have for higher end tablets (or transformers or whatever this is called)?

 

[BadTB25]

So many SP clones. I guess MS is doing something right with their design. That HP kickstand is kinda crap though.

 

[orangpelupa]

That VAIO Z Canvas is ridiculous.
So they announce now a tablet using a 2.5 year-old Haswell 4770HQ, when the equivalent Broadwell 5750HQ using an updated GPU and similar price has been available for 4 months and the quad-core Skylake H range with a GT4e is getting released within weeks?
And all this for a premium product no less.

No wonder Sony got rid of the VAIO division. Their execution seems terrible.

actually Vaio Z was leaked years BEFORE the vaio division was sold. It seems the project did not get greenlit under sony. But under new management, it got greenlit with the exact same old spec -___-

 

[liolio]

Since Windows 10 is out I've seen no improvement on the App availability side, as I expected Windows 10 does nothing that helps or give devs more intensive to develops apps for the system. Google stance wrt to the system won't change if they know that app usage on MSFT OS(s) is still marginal. It seems that Windows 10 devices sales are slowing significantly too.
I'm searching for cheap present for Christmas (while avoiding not useable crap /waste of money) and the lack of cheap Windows powered devices is startling, you have (less and less by the way) cheap crappy Windows 8.1 or 10 tablets and then the price jump a good chunk to more properly usable Windows devices (which require a keyboard to maximize their potential). Whereas there are usable tablets in between 49$ and 99$ Microsoft powered devices are less and less relevant in that segment.
I restate what I wrote a while ago MSFt needs a device that drag adoption, they have no choice but to mimic Amazon approach with their last tablets. The Surface line will never get the volume MSFT needs if they wants publishers to bother porting lots of apps to their systems. The requirements for Windows 10 to shows it muscles are still too high, uncompatible with a market which hoover more and more toward low-end. As this point it might fail but MSFT best bet is a really cheap device akin to Amazon last kindle fire. They could also consider ads to subsidize some of the BOM of the device.
It may fail, it might fail (they've been doing it wrong for so long) but I think they don't really have choice, either way I think they are going out sooner than later. On the vanilla windows size, the people I know are pleased with Windows 10 but they don't give a damned for the apps, it is actually more of a drag, something confusing, than a positive point. Not only casual user, I removed all the apps I could from my laptop, it is useless.
2 in 1 devices are sort of trendy nowadays but I don not believe in their long term potential, A laptop does not need to be able to act as a tablet to serves its purpose, and it going to get even truer as tablets get more and more affordable and account /setting / etc. synchronization among your various devices is getting the standard. Now to be a successful tablet you need apps, lots of them: good ones, bad ones, good games bad games => it is mostly a device for entertaining, if it goes wrong you wipe it /reset it without a second though.
Windows 10 schizophrenic nature is still doing nothing on that front.

 

[liolio]

For the ref I'm running Windows 10 mobile build 10851 on my Lumia 435. It is no longer a phone I use as I can't pass on Google services especially maps, here in France Here is not cutting it for me.
Overall I can't tell it is a hell of an improvement, I can't make measurement but multitasking seems smoother, battery life seems better (idle). Edge is much better that the old IE which was dead slow and on top of it was wasting lots of time reloading pages anytime it had the chance. Speech to text capability have not changed though being back from Android/Google I've to give credit Microsoft for their awesome work, at least with French Google does not come close.
I will not go back to use it as the navigation services are not doing as well as google at reacting to changes in traffic, at making travel time estimates, etc. Though if MSFT catch-up here I could go back windows mobile (I dislike loading my phone with unnecessary apps /potential crap so the relative lacks of apps and games is not an issue for me), nb that is far from true for lots of users though).
The Appstore is much better, the old one looked really bad, like antiquated. It is still does not compare to the Playstore but it looks reasonably in touch with its time. The lack and quality of Apps can only be changed through volume.

MSFT is going in the right direction, with the OS but not fast enough, imho they should pass altogether on high end, their last phones won't help them. IMho they need to stick to low end, actually I would go with even less models than what Nadella announced, like two low end model a year (4.3" & 5.2" ).
Providing their service to Android is a great idea, ultimately if they fix their shortcoming they could branch off it.

I think it is in MSFT to deal with partner and I've been wondering if the partner they need to push forward the mobile side of the OS is Amazon. Amazon already branch off Android, their Appstore does not offer the variety of Google playstore, they are currently trying lots of thing to gain traction. A lot of the issue they are facing are the same MSFT is facing. I wonder if an alliance here (thus making the Windows Mobile a closed controlled platform) could serve them for the best. Clearly trades off should be made, MSFT could get the Games and the Apps, Amazon the non interactive content.
The IT world is a bit over crowded at the moment wrt to OS: MacOS and iOS, ChromeOS and Android, Windows and Windows Mobile, in between I would add Amazon OS which whereas it is mostly Android tries to enforce another UI onto users. It is also crowded with regard to brands from video services to clouds etc. etc.
I think vanilla windows, being bound to Intel IPs, should evolve more and more toward the professional market. MSFT should quit the schizophrenic approach they pursue right now (that does not mean prevent from running on their systems for the few interested in that). MSFT needs to secure more a place in the consumer realm they can afford another approach. A long lasting deal could help rationalize expenses for both companies, MSFT runs media services so does amazon, they don't have an offering for book, both company runs cloud storage.
A Fire 7 selling at 49$ (with ads) running windows 10 mobile would have helped MSFT a lot more than the universal apps and all the others investments (and losses, free upgrade, etc.) MSFT conceided to. Actually they could have subsidise some more Apps ports or the hardware a little (to make a bigger) for a fraction of what they spend wrongly on the main line of Windows.
There are all sort of deal they could do, giving up on One cloud but selling how to to Amazon (which in turn deals with one less competitor). In a more general manner MSFT could sell how to amazon to improve their service the counter being MSFT exiting those markets. MSFT would have keep games and Apps. If the plan were to succeed it would also mean lot more users (and income) for the service MSFT runs (bing, Maps/Here, etc.). On amazon side they would be the de facto content provider for a successful OS (and nothing prevent them to offer their services on others OS), it would also cut the expense of developing their own take on Android.
EDIT Oops I forgot it would also get Amazon in the phone market (aka giving MSFT some leverage in the negotiation).

 

[wco81]

It seems MS is emphasizing the 2-in-1 like the Surface, which are more expensive laptops with detachable screens (Surface Book) or a big and heavy tablet with an expensive keyboard (Surface Pro).

Lenovo and others are also doing their 2 in 1 designs.

Pure Windows tablets exist?

 

[Rikimaru]

Pure Windows tablets exist?

There are a lot on Atoms.

 

[liolio]

It seems MS is emphasizing the 2-in-1 like the Surface, which are more expensive laptops with detachable screens (Surface Book) or a big and heavy tablet with an expensive keyboard (Surface Pro). Lenovo and others are also doing their 2 in 1 designs.
Pure Windows tablets exist?

There are a lot on Atoms.

Actually there are, HP quit doing cheap tablets though Dell still does low-mid end windows tablets. Last time I checked Lenovo offering was shrinking. Though there is good reason for that they are not competitive against Android tablets. That is actually the issue, you are stuck to Atom, you can't use anything cheaper, you also need more storage than competing Android devices. Windows 10 Mobile is an improvement from my limited experience but I would bet that Android (good old kitkat at least) is still more responsive /does more out of lesser specs. Edge will be better then IE but Chrome is far ahead and it ain't standing still, etc.
2 in 1 devices are trendy laptops, whereas MSFT high end device are fine I dislike where they are pushing Windows and the last rendition is no better than the Windows 8. It is a laptop desktop OS, you do not need a touchscreen, Apple is right to pass with it Mac line.
2 in 1, making up a "serious" "professional" or "old school" into a tabletish OS is not gonna help them fighting real mobile OS, from what I can tell that approach are just good enough to keep the usual Windows users (or refreshers) "interested" (it is not working that well).

 

[liolio]

An update to my POV, I spent more time toying with Windows 10 Mobile Build 10581 (iirc), it is quiet an improvement, it runs nicely on my super low-end Lumia 435, better than Windows 8.1 ever did. It seems like a really good basis now they need apps and cheap devices. I'm not a believer in "Universal Apps" for anything but high profile (if not proprietary MSFT) apps as it puts an overhead on the publisher/developers side, not a good idea especially when your market shares are that low. On the other end easy ports from iOS has great potential IF MSFT manages to sell customers a significant amount of devices that rely on apps and on apps alone.

There is something else that MSFT that could do if they want to be back in the game, it is to manage to pull a deal with with Amazon and to come with the first "unified online store" where you can buy digital and physical stuff. The idea has been in my head for a little while and the more I think about it the more it makes sense... at least to me

 

[Axe]

Man i still own Surface pro 2 8GB ram and is one of the best things i ever bought for something like $850!
Looking forward to Surface pro 4 but price/value is way too unbalanced!

 

[orangpelupa]

and im still on Vaio Tap 11 4GB RAM... it really hurting. Especially nowadays, where the samsung SSD is super slow (became KB/s) when the pagefile bigger than 4 GB

seriously, SSD with KB/s speed. even the mSD card i put there is faster.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

OK, was just browsing random stuff while I had a bit of free time and stumbled across this.

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS41218816

At first it's much of the same. Apple tablet sales continue to fall. Android tablet sales are falling. Is Samsung really the only manufacturer of premium Android tablets now? Windows tablet sales continue to grow, but are still just a small fraction of the overall tablet market.

But reading it. It appears that Surface has done well enough (continued steady growth despite an overall downturn in the tablet market) that many former Android only smartphone/tablet makers are now introducing or plan to introduce Windows detachable tablets.

Huawei's MateBook (http://consumer.huawei.com/minisite/worldwide/matebook/index.htm ) actually looks fairly interesting. It basically follows the design cue's of the Surface line (3:2 ratio high PPI screen) although it ditches the kickstand (damn) in favor of a wrap around keyboard cover/holder. At least they kept the very strong magnetic attaching mechanism for the keyboard cover/stand. That does allow it to be thinner however (6.9 mm, as thin as the 12.9" iPad Pro and a bit lighter ~640 grams versus 700+ grams). They do skimp on the battery, so I wonder how that'll affect battery life. They claim 9-10 hours, but with only a 33.7 Wh battery, I'm not sure if I believe them.

Unfortunately only available with Core-M. So it only competes with the low end Surface 4 pro.

Still it looks nice. And the pen is rechargeable (100 hours on a charge they claim) and doubles as a laser pointer (!) which is interesting. Also supposed to have 2048 levels of sensitivity.

I'm very curious to see what the other Chinese former Android only manufacturers do with their Windows entries. As it is, I'm very intrigued by this. If it had a Surface Pro style kickstand, I'd probably be all over it. Price seems quite reasonable as well, 699 USD for the base model and goes up from there. Price doesn't include the pen, unfortunately. And I think it includes the keyboard cover/stand, but I'm not entirely sure about that.

BTW - it also looks gorgeous.

Very interesting times.

I'm extremely interested to see what Xiaomi's upcoming Windows 10 tablet is going to be like.

Regards,
SB

 

[orangpelupa]

@Silent_Buddha its pen also use rechargable battery. awesome! no need to hunt for AAAA battery.