Windows tablets
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Silent_Buddha
Legend
Wish I had read this when he first posted it, but I found it insightful even now so maybe someone else would as well...
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/02/22/the-ms-surface-pro
I found this bit amusing...
I didn't even know there was a special Win8 tablet version of Civ 5. I have to go look into that. I wonder if I can just patch my Steam version of Civ 5 for that or if it's already built in (haven't played Civ 5 in months).
The conclusion was interesting as well when he was trying to figure out just what the Surface Pro was.
Reading that makes me really excited to see how a Haswell ULT, 4.5w SDP, or 6w SDP dockable tablet performs.
Regards,
SB
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/02/22/the-ms-surface-pro
I found this bit amusing...
I didn't even know there was a special Win8 tablet version of Civ 5. I have to go look into that. I wonder if I can just patch my Steam version of Civ 5 for that or if it's already built in (haven't played Civ 5 in months).
The conclusion was interesting as well when he was trying to figure out just what the Surface Pro was.
Reading that makes me really excited to see how a Haswell ULT, 4.5w SDP, or 6w SDP dockable tablet performs.
Regards,
SB
I would assume that version to be on the Windows App Store?
And I don't see RT going, Windows Phone will likey just converge into it, and integration with Windows 8 desktop will eventually be so seamless you can't tell the difference.
It was definitely silly to release a desktop version of Windows 8 that was not properly optimised for desktop use though. But I epect things to be fixed soon enough, and I am still in the camp that prefers Windows 8 even in its current state (though I am definitely happy with the App to Window mod)
And I don't see RT going, Windows Phone will likey just converge into it, and integration with Windows 8 desktop will eventually be so seamless you can't tell the difference.
It was definitely silly to release a desktop version of Windows 8 that was not properly optimised for desktop use though. But I epect things to be fixed soon enough, and I am still in the camp that prefers Windows 8 even in its current state (though I am definitely happy with the App to Window mod)
Tired of waiting for any of those interesting Temash concepts to show up at retail, I broke down and got a Samsung ATIV Smart PC 500T on sale (equivalent of $380 + VAT) as an impulse buy. At less than half the original RRP around here, it moved from the "oh, hell no!" category and into the "meh, why not?" one. (Side note: Prices on these Windows tablets seem to be dropping all over the place, but not moving much stock.)
Anywhoo. I'm kinda torn between thinking of this thing as a neat little convergence device, capable of fulfilling many roles with a few minor compromises, and as a half-assed concept that more or less fails at everything it sets out to do.
Generally speaking, the screen is solid. Bright and with good contrast. 1360x768 is enough for me, but some might have liked a higher resolution. Stylus "S-Pen" (housing in tablet body, a bit short, no dedicated eraser button) and digitizer are also welcome additions and inking is fast and smooth. Windows 8 handwriting recognition is rather impressive. Speakers seem about par for the tablet space. Battery life is 10+ hours with light use and moderate brightness.
Keyboard is nice to write on. Touchpad is also good, after a bit of tweaking of the settings to get it to my liking. The dock is a somewhat on the heavy side for having no extra battery though, and the opening angle for the screen in docked mode is limited. Both issues with (literally) balancing the system, I believe, since all the hardware and the battery sit in the tablet itself.
CPU-wise the Atom does its job as long as one does not treat the system as if it were a full fledged ultraportable. The limited 2GB of ram also plays a role here, so running memory-intensive programs that cause it to start swapping slows things down to a crawl.
This is amplified by the eMMC main storage that seems to be doing OK for light tasks, but chugs the entire system when it's continuously busy for a period of time (i.e. when some program suddenly decides to go swap-crazy or when running a large download in the background).
The slow CPU and slow storage also seems to be the reason it took the better part of two days (occasionally checking in when it needed user input) to get it from factory condition to actually being ready to use. (Downloading a couple of GBs worth of patches, drivers and Windows updates (waiting for them to install and the windows services finishing up their idle tasks cleanup), decrudifying the preinstalled system, adding some of my own applications, etc.). That was a bit of a chore, but I'm generally pleased with the responsiveness of the system now that's done.
The one thing I would have liked is a bit more GPU oomph. It can run Torchlight, Telltale games, and old stuff such as KoToR at 20-something-ish frame rates on low settings but that's the limit of it. A couple of (uninspiring) Windows Store games I've tried also seemed to run OK, but no more than that.
As a tablet I kind of like it. I can see the appeal of Windows 8 on such a touch driven system. It generally works very well. Or, it would have; if not for the appalling state of affairs that is the application ecosystem for the Windows "modern UI".
Which again leads to the good old desktop more often than one would like on such a hybrid device. The pen helps, but this is still not a very touch friendly interface. Not a problem if one is always carrying the dock, but if so a more capable (cheap) subnotebook would probably do notably better in terms of performance.
So, at its regular asking price we're talking about a machine that's less capable as an entertainment device/pure tablet (due to poor software availability) than cheaper priced Android alternatives. It's also much slower than a similarly priced subnotebook. However, on sale and if one needs both a tablet and something that's capable of getting some work done; especially if one starts out with aging dedicated devices (In my case, Tegra 2 tablet and 1.2Ghz/2GB Turion subnote). Well, then this might be just the kind of thing to hold over until either AMD gets their act together or until Silvermont comes around later this year.
Anywhoo. I'm kinda torn between thinking of this thing as a neat little convergence device, capable of fulfilling many roles with a few minor compromises, and as a half-assed concept that more or less fails at everything it sets out to do.
Generally speaking, the screen is solid. Bright and with good contrast. 1360x768 is enough for me, but some might have liked a higher resolution. Stylus "S-Pen" (housing in tablet body, a bit short, no dedicated eraser button) and digitizer are also welcome additions and inking is fast and smooth. Windows 8 handwriting recognition is rather impressive. Speakers seem about par for the tablet space. Battery life is 10+ hours with light use and moderate brightness.
Keyboard is nice to write on. Touchpad is also good, after a bit of tweaking of the settings to get it to my liking. The dock is a somewhat on the heavy side for having no extra battery though, and the opening angle for the screen in docked mode is limited. Both issues with (literally) balancing the system, I believe, since all the hardware and the battery sit in the tablet itself.
CPU-wise the Atom does its job as long as one does not treat the system as if it were a full fledged ultraportable. The limited 2GB of ram also plays a role here, so running memory-intensive programs that cause it to start swapping slows things down to a crawl.
This is amplified by the eMMC main storage that seems to be doing OK for light tasks, but chugs the entire system when it's continuously busy for a period of time (i.e. when some program suddenly decides to go swap-crazy or when running a large download in the background).
The slow CPU and slow storage also seems to be the reason it took the better part of two days (occasionally checking in when it needed user input) to get it from factory condition to actually being ready to use. (Downloading a couple of GBs worth of patches, drivers and Windows updates (waiting for them to install and the windows services finishing up their idle tasks cleanup), decrudifying the preinstalled system, adding some of my own applications, etc.). That was a bit of a chore, but I'm generally pleased with the responsiveness of the system now that's done.
The one thing I would have liked is a bit more GPU oomph. It can run Torchlight, Telltale games, and old stuff such as KoToR at 20-something-ish frame rates on low settings but that's the limit of it. A couple of (uninspiring) Windows Store games I've tried also seemed to run OK, but no more than that.
As a tablet I kind of like it. I can see the appeal of Windows 8 on such a touch driven system. It generally works very well. Or, it would have; if not for the appalling state of affairs that is the application ecosystem for the Windows "modern UI".
Which again leads to the good old desktop more often than one would like on such a hybrid device. The pen helps, but this is still not a very touch friendly interface. Not a problem if one is always carrying the dock, but if so a more capable (cheap) subnotebook would probably do notably better in terms of performance.
So, at its regular asking price we're talking about a machine that's less capable as an entertainment device/pure tablet (due to poor software availability) than cheaper priced Android alternatives. It's also much slower than a similarly priced subnotebook. However, on sale and if one needs both a tablet and something that's capable of getting some work done; especially if one starts out with aging dedicated devices (In my case, Tegra 2 tablet and 1.2Ghz/2GB Turion subnote). Well, then this might be just the kind of thing to hold over until either AMD gets their act together or until Silvermont comes around later this year.
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Silent_Buddha
Legend
After much use, I've actually gotten fairly good at the touch aspects of using desktop applications. I pretty much know where my finger will contact the surface as I use a fairly consistent finger motion making things predictable. It was definitely hell at first though and not optimal. Still muck things up every now and then.
With digitizer pen, it's not an issue for me as I've been using Windows Tablets since Windows XP Tablet edition.
I'm in the same boat with application and game performance, except my slate is much older with an even slower graphics solution (original Atom
) and almost a pound heavier than yours (2.25 pounds for my 11" slate from 2011). Good enough for light duties at least.Regards,
SB
I'm considering a ATIV Book 9 Lite for my wife. It sounds quite similar to this one except having 4GB and a 128GB SSD that performs very well (515/384) and of course being an Ultrabook rather than a tablet. 13.3" somehow seems to work well with 1366x768 resolution, as it makes everything in Windows look 'normal', especially in Desktop mode. Still very light. Wouldn't risk the money otherwise, but this is being paid for by her work, and considering her typical computing habits, this could be a device that covers all her needs, so I am quite curious how that will turn out.
i want haswel tablet or amd apu tablet under 600 dollar.
it seems im far inside dreamland :/
it seems im far inside dreamland :/
Silent_Buddha
Legend
You could say the same about Intel versus AMD, but I don't think that makes AMD feel any better.
Note - that isn't to say that ARM will end up in the same relative position to Intel as AMD currently is.
Regards,
SB
Given the various designs of docks and hinges for tablets/convertibles, I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be anyone looking at a design with a bendable arm. Raising the screen allows for much better ergonomics, you're free to use any orientation and angle you want, and it could double as a handle.
You can get tablet stands with flexible arms but their base doesn't contain any useful components.
You can get tablet stands with flexible arms but their base doesn't contain any useful components.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
And finally we should start seeing some Haswell based Tablet announcements. Here's Asus to start things off...
http://press.asus.com/asus-announces-transformer-book-t300-with-detachable-tablet-display/
It has a claimed battery life of 8 hours for a 13.3 inch dockable tablet (or ultrabook that can also be a tablet). But doesn't mention some rather important things (important to me at least). No mention of a battery in the keyboard dock, bugger. And no mention of digitizer pen support, making this unsuitable for me.
Can't wait to see what other companies do with their Haswell based tablets.
In other news this is pretty encouraging for the low end of the Windows tablet market...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7263/intel-teases-baytrail-performance-with-atom-z3770-cinebench-score
Potentially quite a bit faster than Clovertrail, which was somewhat expected, but nice to see something even if it is just one benchmark.
Regards,
SB
http://press.asus.com/asus-announces-transformer-book-t300-with-detachable-tablet-display/
It has a claimed battery life of 8 hours for a 13.3 inch dockable tablet (or ultrabook that can also be a tablet). But doesn't mention some rather important things (important to me at least). No mention of a battery in the keyboard dock, bugger. And no mention of digitizer pen support, making this unsuitable for me.
Can't wait to see what other companies do with their Haswell based tablets.
In other news this is pretty encouraging for the low end of the Windows tablet market...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7263/intel-teases-baytrail-performance-with-atom-z3770-cinebench-score
Potentially quite a bit faster than Clovertrail, which was somewhat expected, but nice to see something even if it is just one benchmark.
Regards,
SB
Mintmaster
Veteran
So basically, Intel's 2W SDP part has roughly the same performance as AMD's 15W TDP part (or as Anand put it, a 2010 MBA). Yikes.
I don't know how much Intel is going to charge, but there's going to be some awesome x86 tablet/hybrid hardware coming out in the near future. Sony's VAIO Tap 11 looks pretty neat, but stick the Atom Z3770 in an Xperia Tablet Z in place of the S4 Pro, add $80 of NAND chips, and you have a capable 1.1 lb Windows 8 machine.
That's crazy.
I really hope MS does a good job with Surface 2.
I don't know how much Intel is going to charge, but there's going to be some awesome x86 tablet/hybrid hardware coming out in the near future. Sony's VAIO Tap 11 looks pretty neat, but stick the Atom Z3770 in an Xperia Tablet Z in place of the S4 Pro, add $80 of NAND chips, and you have a capable 1.1 lb Windows 8 machine.
That's crazy.
I really hope MS does a good job with Surface 2.
I may be the minority, but that looks cool. And I bet you could plop this down on a stand in portrait mode and connect a normal KB MS and have a low profile portrait PC that could be used, on occasion, as a tablet.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
That 15" model with the 2560x1620 (slightly better than 16:10
) display is very interesting. Tempted to get it, but I would really rather prefer one with a detachable keyboard.And pretty amazing that their Haswell based tablet is only 0.39 inches (9.9 mm) thick compared to the Retina iPads at 0.35 inches (8.9 mm) thick. Although you do sacrifice battery life to get that thin for the Haswell based tablet (as well as only a 1080p display). Of course, the flip side being that you have basically a full power PC.
Regards,
SB
Comparing Intel SDP vs AMD TDP surely is the right thing to do
Can't wait to see independent benchmarks, not the marketing BS Piednoel keeps on posting.
BTW oddly enough this was a 32-bit run, why no 64-bit figure? Does 3770 finally lack 64-bit support?
Windows 8 with connected standby is only available for 32-bit versions, which is what all Baytrail tablets will use. So no full 4 GB RAM either.
That's very disappointing
