Will WGF 2.0 video cards be usable in XP/2000?

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by {Sniping}Waste, Mar 18, 2006.

  1. Demirug

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Messages:
    1,326
    Likes Received:
    69
    With Direct3D 9Ex you will have some benefits from the new driver model with older hardware too. This is primary for AERO but games can profit from it too. Currently AERO use always D3D9 EX even if you have a D3D10 GPU.
     
  2. suryad

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,479
    Likes Received:
    16
    Thanks. What kind of benefits would older hardware benefit from? Performance increases because of the new lesser overhead driver model?
     
  3. Rys

    Rys PowerVR
    Moderator Veteran Alpha

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2003
    Messages:
    4,162
    Likes Received:
    1,449
    Location:
    Beyond3D HQ
    Calculations have to be FP32, but rendertargets, the front and back buffer, depth and other surfaces don't have to be.
     
  4. Blazkowicz

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    5,607
    Likes Received:
    256
    Don't confuse internal precision and framebuffer/rendertarget format (which is the output)
    surely no FP16 or FP24 internal precision allowed in D3D10, but you certainly can't live without FP16 rendertarget, which are already bandwith hungry enough compared to FX8.
    (I'd expect FX8 support as well)
     
  5. KimB

    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Messages:
    12,921
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    FX8 will certainly be supported for display output. But I would like to see a move to 10-bit precision for display output. It would, in particular, be much better for gamma correction.
     
  6. Demirug

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Messages:
    1,326
    Likes Received:
    69
    The lower overhead is something that all Direct3D version will see. Direct3D 9EX supports as one example a faster switching between full screen mode and the desktop. There are other small small improvements but I don’t expect that many games will make use of it because it will break Windiws XP compatibility.
     
  7. Demirug

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Messages:
    1,326
    Likes Received:
    69
    D3D10 supports the classic FX8 mode, FX8 with sRGB encodings, FX10 and FP16 as display formats.
     
  8. KimB

    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Messages:
    12,921
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I suppose the latter would be nice for some HDR displays. But I doubt it will be used in games.

    I do hope, however, that the FX10 format for display output is not an HDR format, but rather a high precision format.
     
  9. Demirug

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Messages:
    1,326
    Likes Received:
    69
    Depends on who you ask. For ATI anything beyond FX8 is HDR.
     
  10. JHoxley

    Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    South Coast, England
    10-10-10-2 comes in either unorm or uint format, not float. 11-11-10 is the closest float format.

    hth
    Jack
     
  11. Blazkowicz

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    5,607
    Likes Received:
    256
    I thought D3D9 Ex adds the graphics memory virtualization which is one of the main benefits of WDDM drivers. is it so, or is it reserved to D3D10?
    also, any chance that the virtualization can be done at driver level without explicit application support?
    (so that RAM usage on say Battlefield 2 goes down by not requiring all those hundreds of megs of texture in system RAM)
     
  12. JHoxley

    Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    South Coast, England
    WDDM is responsible for this. There are two flavours - WDDM-Basic and WDDM-Advanced; the former is just a tidier version of the current resource stuff (by the looks of it) and the latter is hardware based page-faulting and scheduling.

    I've not seen anything to suggest that it won't "back port" to existing D3D 8 or 9 apps running through D3D9Ex.

    Jack
     
  13. Demirug

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Messages:
    1,326
    Likes Received:
    69
    IIRC there was an announcement at the last WinHEC about this. You will get some benefits from the new WDDM memory model with older version but to get everything you have to use D3D9EX.
     
  14. KimB

    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Messages:
    12,921
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Well, it's obvious it wasn't a float format, hence calling it FX10. I imagine that the difference between unorm and uint is determined by the chosen range of the format (i.e. [0,1] vs. [0,4])?
     
  15. Armored_Spiderman

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0

    so the internal process is all 100% FP32 but the output can random.

    thanks for the explanation....:wink:
     
  16. Bob

    Bob
    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    47
    If by 'random', you mean 'up to the choice of the developer, not the driver', then you'd be right.
     
  17. KimB

    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Messages:
    12,921
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Yeah, I don't think developers (or users) would like it very much if the output format was actually random :)
     
  18. JHoxley

    Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    South Coast, England
    Off the top of my head (haven't had a chance to check it) UINT is just an unsigned integer of the given dimension (10bit UINT being 0..1023) and UNORM has the same resolution but is deemed to be in a [0,1] range. That is, for a 10 bit UNORM you'd get 1024 discrete intervals between 0 and 1...

    Jack
     
  19. KimB

    Legend

    Joined:
    May 28, 2002
    Messages:
    12,921
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Yeah, the latter is what I'd prefer (and is not what is currently available, except from Matrox on the Parhelia). But uint doesn't make any sense as a framebuffer format (so I'm sure it's purely meant for intermediate storage).
     
  20. JHoxley

    Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    South Coast, England
    I'd have to give it some more thought (getting a bit late / tired now!) but it would probably be of most use as intermediate storage. Given the integer instruction set in SM4 it makes sense to allow normal ranges of integer values. Things like accumulators/counters and stencil-like operations come to mind...

    Cheers,
    Jack
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...