When people say "it's a high res version of last gen game X"

[kyleb]

Uh, high end rigs have always run Oblivion better than the 360 does.

As for that screenshot, the massive JPEG compression makes it look awful. Looking beyond that, it doesn't look like it's using any AA or AF. The game will look much better than that shot in real life, heck I can grab better looking shots of the orignal Halo on my PC.

 

[icecold1983]

pc games in general have just been higher res versions of games we had in 2004, crysis will be the first game to advance pc graphics.

to me it means no real advance in the graphics, just higher res textures.

 

[nutball]

pc games in general have just been higher res versions of games we had in 2004, crysis will be the first game to advance pc graphics.

games in general are just higher-res, more graphically flashy versions of games we had in 1993. Crysis won't do anything to change that.

 

[pjbliverpool]

pc games in general have just been higher res versions of games we had in 2004, crysis will be the first game to advance pc graphics.

to me it means no real advance in the graphics, just higher res textures.

So what your effectivley saying there, is that the 360 and PS3 are basically running 720p versions of xbox games, yes?

Because they absolutely are not demonstrating greater levels of graphics than PC games right now. Hell, most "next gen" 360 games are on the PC aswell.

Your right that Crysis will be advancing graphics though. But not just PC graphics, ALL graphics.

 

[woundingchaney]

So what your effectivley saying there, is that the 360 and PS3 are basically running 720p versions of xbox games, yes?

Because they absolutely are not demonstrating greater levels of graphics than PC games right now. Hell, most "next gen" 360 games are on the PC aswell.

Your right that Crysis will be advancing graphics though. But not just PC graphics, ALL graphics.

I dont know about that. Show me pc titles that match Kameo, GoW, Motor Storm, VF5, FNR3, etc. Although there are areas where the pc currently is ahead of the console such as rts games and large scale warfare titles like BF. For pure graphical presentation I would still say the console are ahead.

This is not something I look to continue or anything of the like as I believe it will change in 2007.

Crysis is in a classification of its own. I havent anywhere near the detail in that game done before.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I dont know about that. Show me pc titles that match Kameo, GoW, Motor Storm, VF5, FNR3, etc. Although there are areas where the pc currently is ahead of the console such as rts games and large scale warfare titles like BF. For pure graphical presentation I would still say the console are ahead.

This is not something I look to continue or anything of the like as I believe it will change in 2007.

Crysis is in a classification of its own. I havent anywhere near the detail in that game done before.

Oblivion (with Mods)
TR: Legends
Company of Heroes
NFS: Most Wanted
Fear: Extraction Point
HL2: Episode 1
R6: Vegas
Flight Simulator X

All are easily right up there with console "next gen" graphics and describing them as "high res 2004" graphics while presumably your average 360 game is "2007 next gen" is quite frankly, ridiculous.

I have a 360, I have a high end PC, I have 3 of the games you mention above, and the bottom line is, they are not particularly above what I am able to play on the PC, nevermind "3 years ahead".

EDIT: In fact, you want to know what game REALLY graphically impresses me right now?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/pjbliverpool/Legacy_Enterprise_A.jpg

Is that 2004 graphics? Because I don't remember any xbox or PS2 games looking like that.

 

[kyleb]

I dont know about that. Show me pc titles that match Kameo, GoW, Motor Storm, VF5, FNR3, etc.

Match them in what way? I'm not aware of anything in those games that is technically beyond what I've seen in PC games, are you just looking at the art direction?

 

[woundingchaney]

Oblivion (with Mods)
TR: Legends
Company of Heroes
NFS: Most Wanted
Fear: Extraction Point
HL2: Episode 1
R6: Vegas
Flight Simulator X

All are easily right up there with console "next gen" graphics and describing them as "high res 2004" graphics while presumably your average 360 game is "2007 next gen" is quite frankly, ridiculous.

I have a 360, I have a high end PC, I have 3 of the games you mention above, and the bottom line is, they are not particularly above what I am able to play on the PC, nevermind "3 years ahead".

Im still going to have to disagree. I as well have a high end gaming rig with both the 360 and the PS3.

I dont particularly find HL2-1, Fear EP, or TR Legends to be amongst the top tier of graphcial standards nor do I feel R6 and/or Oblivion are beyond their console counterparts (the mod factor muddles the issue though). Although Oblivion can look considerably better.

I didnt make the statement suggesting that pc games are 3 years behind consoles or anything of the like (sorry if you got that impression). Although I do feel that for overall graphic umphh the console are still ahead of current pc titles.

 

[kyleb]

How so? The art direction can always be more focused in console games because they are designed for a fixed platform rather than a wide range of hardware. But again, as far as technical features go don't know of anything in the games you mention that goes beyond what is available on the PC.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Im still going to have to disagree. I as well have a high end gaming rig with both the 360 and the PS3.

Fair enough, but you say one thing, I say another. To me, that means its far from the foregone conclusion it was being made out to be.

Frankly, I look at Kameo, and see nothing I can't see in TR:Legends. I look at Gears, and think, I have been just as impressed by the modded Oblivon. I look at VR5 and think "why did you even include that in your list?"

To be fair, FN3 has no comparison on the PC, but then CoH has no comparison on console.

I dont particularly find HL2-1, Fear EP, or TR Legends to be amongst the top tier of graphcial standards

While you think Kameo and VR5 are? TR:L and Kameo could be made with the same engines they share so many common "next gen effects".

nor do I feel R6 and/or Oblivion are beyond their console counterparts (the mod factor muddles the issue though).

R6, no. But then its already considered one of the better looking games on 360:

http://uk.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/rainbowsixvegas/review.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=tabs

Graphics = 9

And as for Oblivion, I don't see why mods muddle the issue, its very, very clear. They make it far better looking than the 360 (or PS3) version.

I didnt make the statement suggesting that pc games are 3 years behind consoles or anything of the like (sorry if you got that impression). Although I do feel that for overall graphic umphh the console are still ahead of current pc titles.

Fair enough, each to his own. But in my experience of both platforms there is very little difference.

 

[woundingchaney]

How so? The art direction will always be focused in console games because they are designed for a fixed platform rather than a wide range of hardware. But again, as far as technical features go don't know of anything in the games you mention that goes beyond what is available on the PC.

What is it your referring to as technical features?? In respective circumstances I may be able to pick out a pc title/titles that has character models of FNR3, physics of Motorstorm, particle effects of Kameo/LP, character counts of DR and what not. I wasnt referring to a specific technical level, more so on an overall presentation level.

The statement was made that taken the graphical level of console games are above pc titles (which is primarily opinion).

 

[icecold1983]

Oblivion (with Mods)
TR: Legends
Company of Heroes
NFS: Most Wanted
Fear: Extraction Point
HL2: Episode 1
R6: Vegas
Flight Simulator X

All are easily right up there with console "next gen" graphics and describing them as "high res 2004" graphics while presumably your average 360 game is "2007 next gen" is quite frankly, ridiculous.

I have a 360, I have a high end PC, I have 3 of the games you mention above, and the bottom line is, they are not particularly above what I am able to play on the PC, nevermind "3 years ahead".

EDIT: In fact, you want to know what game REALLY graphically impresses me right now?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/pjbliverpool/Legacy_Enterprise_A.jpg

Is that 2004 graphics? Because I don't remember any xbox or PS2 games looking like that.

are you serious? aa + af dont = good graphics

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/art...xies-jump-to-lightspeed-20040609014245662.jpg

thats from 2004, looks like the exact same game

 

[woundingchaney]

Fair enough, but you say one thing, I say another. To me, that means its far from the foregone conclusion it was being made out to be.

Frankly, I look at Kameo, and see nothing I can't see in TR:Legends. I look at Gears, and think, I have been just as impressed by the modded Oblivon. I look at VR5 and think "why did you even include that in your list?"

To be fair, FN3 has no comparison on the PC, but then CoH has no comparison on console.

Is TR Legends = tomb raider legends?? If so I definetely say that it isnt comparable to Kameo in a series of areas (particle effects, textures, etc).

I included VF5 for character builds and animations (I find them to be rather impressive).

And comparing a modded Oblivion to Gears is rather hard for me to imagine but some of the Oblivion mods do look very impressive.

I think mods muddle the issue because we have a game released in 2006 for the pc and the 360 that was very comparable at that time (I believe ATIs 1800 was the latest card out). Now without a doubt Oblivion can look better than its 360 counterpart currently but the 360 doenst have the advantage of mods or upgradeable hardware. To me it would be the equivalent of saying that R6 on the pc is inferior because it cannot be played on Live (although being how this is a graphical discussion I can see your view as well) .

As you said certain titles simply do not have equivalents on another platform (currently I believe most of the outstanding graphically impressive pc titles are rts games).

In the end I personally believe that pc titles arent up to par with console titles (as a whole). But once again as you said to each his own.

 

[pjbliverpool]

are you serious? aa + af dont = good graphics

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/art...xies-jump-to-lightspeed-20040609014245662.jpg

thats from 2004, looks like the exact same game

Uh huh.

Lets get back on topic eh, this line of conversation is quite frankly, pathetic.

 

[scooby_dooby]

How so? The art direction can always be more focused in console games because they are designed for a fixed platform rather than a wide range of hardware. But again, as far as technical features go don't know of anything in the games you mention that goes beyond what is available on the PC.

But in the end, what matters is the combination of art style, and technical features as far as what looks the best. I don't think it's off base to say that right now, you can get better looking titles on the consoles.

FN3 for example, where is that equivalent? Forza 2 is dropping in a couple months. No equivalent. GOW? Same thing. Blue Dragon?? etc

 

[pjbliverpool]

Is TR Legends = tomb raider legends?? If so I definetely say that it isnt comparable to Kameo in a series of areas (particle effects, textures, etc).

What particle effects are there in Kameo that are beyong your average game? And the textures are almost of identical quality between the two, both have very nicely parallax mapped surfaces. I would give Kameo the nod with its grass while TR takes it with the lighting/shadowing for me.

And comparing a modded Oblivion to Gears is rather hard for me to imagine but some of the Oblivion mods do look very impressive.

Im thinking along the lines of this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/pjbliverpool/Oblivion_3_PC.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/pjbliverpool/Oblivion_4_PC.jpg

I think mods muddle the issue because we have a game released in 2006 for the pc and the 360 that was very comparable at that time (I believe ATIs 1800 was the latest card out). Now without a doubt Oblivion can look better than its 360 counterpart currently but the 360 doenst have the advantage of mods or upgradeable hardware. To me it would be the equivalent of saying that R6 on the pc is inferior because it cannot be played on Live (although being how this is a graphical discussion I can see your view as well) .

As you say this is a graphical discussion so Live is irrelivant. We could just as easily bring up things like free online play, Key/Mouse controls or faster loading, but all would be equally irrelivant.

I see your point about the mods but the bottom line is that it was stated that PC graphics are behind console graphics and right now, today, PC graphics include mods. Because console games don't have graphics mods doesn't mean they should be discounted. If im playing it on my PC, then its fair game for comparison to console graphics as far as im concerned.

 

[scooby_dooby]

What particle effects are there in Kameo that are beyong your average game?

Maybe he's referring to the throne room, with the supposed million particles?? *shrug*

Tomb Raider is not very imprssive game though, and is not on par with the best console games at all imo. Just based on playing the demo...

 

[woundingchaney]

Maybe he's referring to the throne room, with the supposed million particles?? *shrug*

Tomb Raider is not very imprssive game though, and is not on par with the best console games at all imo. Just based on playing the demo...

LOL

Throne room I remember . Well I wasnt necessarily referring to the throne room specifically but some of the effects when during gameplay I found to be very impressive not only for their time but still to this day.



Many of these screens show good examples http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/gallery/1198/Kameo-Elements-of-Power/p1/

 

[pjbliverpool]

But in the end, what matters is the combination of art style, and technical features as far as what looks the best. I don't think it's off base to say that right now, you can get better looking titles on the consoles.

FN3 for example, where is that equivalent? Forza 2 is dropping in a couple months. No equivalent. GOW? Same thing. Blue Dragon?? etc

Company of Heroes, where is that equivalent? Flight Simulator X, No equivalent, Modded Oblivon, same thing.

Its easy to pick specific games and say "platform x has no equivilent" but that doesn't mean platform y has universally better graphics than platform x. Hell, there is still no fighting game equivalent on PC to the best the PS2 can muster!

For example I fully expect Little Big World on PS3 to have better graphics than any "comparable" game on any platform for a good while, will that make PS3 the undisputed king of graphics?

Personally, I think the best looking game regardless of genre today is GeoW or a well modded version of Oblivon. Looking at those graphics and then suggesting the PC is 3 years behind the 360 or PS3 is absurd.

 

[kyleb]

What is it your referring to as technical features?

I mean things like Ploygon counts, texture resolutions, various shader effects, lighting and shadowing methods and the like; the kind of differences that actually exist between games of last gen consoles and the new ones, for instance Halo 2 and Halo 3 to take from the example that started this thread. Sure, there is nothing that looks like FNR3 or even MS on the PC, but best I can tell that is just a matter of art direction and game design rather than any particular "graphic umphh" from the consoles themselves.