When enough is enough (AF quality on g70)

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tEd

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tEd said:
http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/g70_flimmern/
What actually is more disturbing that g70 reviews were benched on quality not high quality(nvidia recommendation ;) )
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Wasn't that the case in most Nv40 reviews too?

Funny how 3D Center states that all benchmarks are unvalid as long as reviewers use the default 'Quality' mode for Nv cards, because the IQ is simply not on par with Radeon cards. (regarding shimmering)
 
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Apple740 said:
Wasn't that the case in most Nv40 reviews too?
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Probbaly on alot of reviews which just used default setting for benches. At least on nv40 with HQ you get good quality at least mostly shimmer free. That's not the case with g70 anymore , AF quality has been worsened again and even with HQ high tendency to shimmer.

That's just simply not acceptable in so called fastest graphiccard of the world. I wanna make noise about this as much as i can because if i(we) don't , quality gets worse and worse with nvidia even getting through with it and i don't want that to happen.
 
tEd said:
Probbaly on alot of reviews which just used default setting for benches. At least on nv40 with HQ you get good quality at least mostly shimmer free. That's not the case with g70 anymore , AF quality has been worsened again and even with HQ high tendency to shimmer.

That's just simply not acceptable in so called fastest graphiccard of the world. I wanna make noise about this as much as i can because if i(we) don't , quality gets worse and worse with nvidia even getting through with it and i don't want that to happen.
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I agree VERY much with you. Sadly, the fact is that at most message boards someone is going to try calling you a f4nb0y when you can even show clear proof.
 
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radeonic2 said:
Well videos don't even work for me.
What the hell kind of codec needs 70~MB for a few seconds of video?
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It's the fraps format therfor you need to have the latest fraps installed to make the vids work. They are big because they are lossless compressed.

It's a quality comparison after all
 
At least on nv40 with HQ you get good quality at least mostly shimmer free.
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Yes i know, but the problem is you'll lose a lot of performance in HQ mode. A 6800u is not competitive anymore then with a X800XTPE. As far as i remember (haven't played with a Nv40 for some time now) the performance penalty was somewhere in the range of 25% or even more. A costly 25% because it's the difference between able to play with 2x or 4x AA in some situations.
 
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That's his point though. They are using lower image quality compared to the Radeon cards. And he's saying you should benchmark cards at the same IQ level to give a fair representation of performance. With that performance hit in mind, it makes Nvidia's cards seem a fair amount worse compared to the ATi cards, as far as the 6x00 line goes.
 
I wanna make some things clear here. I'm not only mad about nvidia because i am and many others are used to their tactics(lowering IQ for FPS) but more so about the big websites which seemed not to be aware of their responsability (hardocp,anandtech....). For crying out loud do your job and don't believe whatever nvidias markeitng tells you to do because then your as bad as they are.

I'm fucking furious about this and heavily disappointed too.

With all the crap nvidia pulled with the nv30 series i thought people would be more aware of such things but i guess it's like old times again nothing learned.

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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tEd said:
I wanna make some things clear here. I'm not only mad about nvidia because i am and many others are used to their tactics(lowering IQ for FPS) but more so about the big websites which seemed not to be aware of their responsability (hardocp,anandtech....). For crying out loud do your job and don't believe whatever nvidias markeitng tells you to do because then your as bad as they are.

I'm fucking furious about this and heavily disappointed too.

With all the crap nvidia pulled with the nv30 series i thought people would be more aware of such things but i guess it's like old times again nothing learned.

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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What if the shimmering happens under hi-quality mode too?
 
Pfft, low IQ here shimmering there, who care? People need SM3, HDR and SLI. And Sweeney said nVidia is best so it must be true.

P.S ATI drivers sucks.


j/k
 
Tweaker said:
Pfft, low IQ here shimmering there, who care? People need SM3, HDR and SLI. And Sweeney said nVidia is best so it must be true.

P.S ATI drivers sucks.


j/k
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Don't kid that's all true. Devs just have a different pov than a gamer and frankly devs often don't know what the average gamer really want(need).

Jesus Chris to all devs. did YOU heard of triple buffering(that's important to gamers) or supporting AA with all modes the IHV support(ati supports upt 6x if you didn't know) i guess not!!!
 
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I'm not only mad about nvidia because i am and many others are used to their tactics(lowering IQ for FPS) but more so about the big websites which seemed not to be aware of their responsability (hardocp,anandtech....).
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Doesn't it go something like this?

Reviewer: "Hi Nvidia, I want to review some cards."

Nv: "Fine, here are our conditions. Read them and agree before we'll send one." (one condition is use the default Quality mode if you publish results)

Reviewer: "But we like to use the HQ mode in our results"

Nv: "Oh, at the moment we don't have any card available but we'll keep your request in mind. Bye bye"
 
In the dank recess of some trolling mind, maybe. It absolutely does not happen like that at all. For starters, NVIDIA PR sometimes completely neglect to give you anything but the board.

<Reviewer> a little help here? maybe a driver? how about a reviewer's guide? what about the NDA?! WHY ARE YOU SENDING ME DRIVERS FOR A QUADRO?!!
<NVIDIA> *snore*
 
Rys said:
In the dank recess of some trolling mind, maybe. It absolutely does not happen like that at all. For starters, NVIDIA PR sometimes completely neglect to give you anything but the board.

<Reviewer> a little help here? maybe a driver? how about a reviewer's guide? what about the NDA?! WHY ARE YOU SENDING ME DRIVERS FOR A QUADRO?!!
<NVIDIA> *snore*
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Me and Rys have talked about this one in depth too... Nvidia usually expects the reviewer to have some clue of what they are doing. And sometimes dont even provide reviewer guides!
 
ChrisRay said:
Me and Rys have talked about this one in depth too... Nvidia usually expects the reviewer to have some clue of what they are doing. And sometimes dont even provide reviewer guides!
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ROFL yes that's true. I had to ask for one the last time.

I'm not only mad about nvidia because i am and many others are used to their tactics(lowering IQ for FPS) but more so about the big websites which seemed not to be aware of their responsability (hardocp,anandtech....).
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I don't see anything from B3D either; and no that's no accusation against any site at all. There wasn't any mention in 3DCenter's initial G70 review either; it took time even for them to get behind the problem (whatever it is).

You might want to be a bit more understanding with major sites and the according time-pressure those usually have in order to release a review ASAP when an NDA has been lifted. Of course is there no excuse then in reviews that follow-up later on, where those time constrainst don't apply.
 
Ailuros said:
ROFL yes that's true. I had to ask for one the last time.



I don't see anything from B3D either; and no that's no accusation against any site at all. There wasn't any mention in 3DCenter's initial G70 review either; it took time even for them to get behind the problem (whatever it is).

You might want to be a bit more understanding with major sites and the according time-pressure those usually have in order to release a review ASAP when an NDA has been lifted. Of course is there no excuse then in reviews that follow-up later on, where those time constrainst don't apply.
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Understanding? Yes how long since gtx reviews have been put up? I don't expect them to have a major IQ article right at the start though i expect that they at least once look at the monitor while reviewing the card and if they are lucky might even have a game running while doing it and then the problem would at least been noticed and then i expect them to tell me what they saw. I recently had some time playing around with a gf6u and checked out AF with quality setting. I started 2 games(q3,ut2004) took me 3-4min. and what i saw was simply shocking , and if some of those reviewers tell me they don't see the shimmering than maybe they should stop reviewing graphiccards.

I understand that there is time pressure but investing 10-20min. starting some games and see how they look and if there are any obvious issues can't be too much to ask.
 
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