What will impress you about Matrox...

Let's just go on the assumption that all the stuff swirling around us has everything to do with Matrox...

We still don't really know anything definitive yet...but, what do you feel will impress you the most, with regards to their upcoming chip?

Having given it a little bit of time, I'm thinking that Matrox is going to have some really killer Antialiasing stuff. If the bandwidth rumours end up coming true, then the sky is really the limit in this area...

So far, Matrox was really the only player not have some sort of Antialiasing, and we all know how much value they place in image quality.

So...I'm expecting that Matrox might have a highly usable AND high-quality AA (lets say it goes up to 8x) mode to offer the user...

I would also gather the same would hold true for advanced filtering as well...

I think the bottom line with this chip will end up being the fact that it will have such enormous power, that they won't have to look to cut corners when implementing these features...and hence, there would be fewer tradeoffs.
 
Lets say it is Matrox, then I expect a risk taker do or die action:

-Lots of bandwith
-Some nice random FSAA
-Displacement mapping
-Lots of pixel shaders
-High internal precision
-Very high quality image (2d and 3D)

8)
 
What would impress me about Matrox is if they dont go the way of Number9 in a couple of years.
 
I'd be impressed simply if Matrox could combine beauty and the beast with robust drivers after so long out of the 3D spotlight. I'd also prefer SS to MS AA, simply because many games still use alpha textures, and Parhelia looks to have the bandwidth to spare.
 
Why not both SSAA and MSAA and leave the user the option to enable what he prefers most? Heck I'd love to see it from more than one vendors from now on.
 
Pete said:
I'd be impressed simply if Matrox could combine beauty and the beast with robust drivers after so long out of the 3D spotlight.

I'll second that. I fear that the specs will outrun real-world performance for some time after the product ships. But since it'll be fast, very fast, it may not matter that much until R300, NV30 and 3dlabs come out.
 
Well, as an ex-Matrox user back in the olden days it seems to me that they need better drivers. Their original support for OpenGL was pathetic, and they've run into some of the same problems now with their video grabber cards. Its more or less impossible to get WinXP drivers for anything but the G450eTV, which is a shame since I know a guy who bought the G400TV roughly a year ago. And even on a "supported" OS like Win2000 it's horribly unstable with dual-CPU kernel running (He blames the OS, but all the problems go away when sticking in another graphics card or switching over to the single-cpu kernel).</rant>

Discontinuing support for older products is IMO not a good sign no matter what....

So. Drivers, drivers, drivers! They're not just important, they're everything really. Without proper drivers even the best card in the world will be a horrible gaming experience. Making a driverset for a completely new product that works well (i.e. high fps, no graphical anomalies) with all the different games out nowadays isn't a trivial task.
 
My prediction..

The next Matrox card will have a 64-bit color internal accuracy, 16x supersampled AA and high-quality anisotropic filtering..

But the catch is, it will only work with HeadCasting(tm).

:)
 
Sharkfood said:
My prediction..

The next Matrox card will have a 64-bit color internal accuracy, 16x supersampled AA and high-quality anisotropic filtering..

But the catch is, it will only work with HeadCasting(tm).

:)

With abilities like that, I don't need HeadCasting(tm) to turn my head by 360 degrees in "Exorcist style". Just looking at the price will do.

On a more serious note, I second about the drivers, but before anything I'd like to see at least a formal technology announcement from Matrox itself. How long has it been since the rumours started for a high end vga from them?
 
I'd be impressed simply if Matrox could combine beauty and the beast with robust drivers after so long out of the 3D spotlight.

Like ATI, Matrox will need sometime. Not expecting real solid drivers.
 
Bogotron said:
I know a guy who bought the G400TV roughly a year ago. And even on a "supported" OS like Win2000 it's horribly unstable with dual-CPU kernel running (He blames the OS, but all the problems go away when sticking in another graphics card or switching over to the single-cpu kernel).</rant>

If there is a problem it must be limited to the G400TV because I've been running Win2000 with dual cpus and a G400 MAX for a long time now with no stability problems.
 
3dcgi:

Yup. It's related to capturing and overlays. If he installs the vanilla G400 drivers its stable, but then he can't use the capture features, so either he's stuck with a rebooting computer or a card he only uses half-way.
 
Typedef Enum said:
We still don't really know anything definitive yet...but, what do you feel will impress you the most, with regards to their upcoming chip?
I don't actually expect them to succeed. The difficulty in jumping from a DX6-class chip to a DX9-class chip will be large, both from a hardware and software perspective. Since they are not a public company no one knows how much cash they have on hand, but given their declining market share I'd be surprised if their balance sheet was in good shape. And since it has been quite some time since they offered a competitive gaming, business, or pro graphics product, their "street credibility" is quite low.

I will therefore set my expectations fairly low. I'll be impressed if they can put out a chip that is in the same feature and performance category as the R8500 or GF3Ti, at a lower price point. They share ATI's advantage of the weak Canadian dollar, which may give them a fighting chance.

I'm a bit more optimistic about 3DLabs+Creative. They have most of the same problems as Matrox, but at least Creative has a reasonable cash reserve (albeit $170M vs. NVIDIA's $790M, so nothing to get too excited about).
 
Why does a company have to possess huge cash reserves to make a superior product ?? Anybody remember a Little company named AMD that released the fastest X86 processor right out from under the shadow of the Cash Cow Intel ??
Money has little to do with it, its the people that make the difference in any company. People are a companies most important asset.
:-?
 
Doomtrooper said:
Why does a company have to possess huge cash reserves to make a superior product ?? Anybody remember a Little company named AMD that released the fastest X86 processor right out from under the shadow of the Cash Cow Intel ??
Money has little to do with it, its the people that make the difference in any company. People are a companies most important asset.
:-?

And if the Athlon hadn't worked, AMD would have gone under.

Money has everything to do with making a superior product. It buys and keeps the good engineers, feeds them with quality tools, and reduces pressure to get it right the first time or die. Management is more willing to be risky, react in a situation when things are getting out of hand, staff it correctly, etc. It also allows people NOT to take short cuts that bit back in the long run. Mind you, its not the only reason, but...

I can almost guarantee that money is the reason BitBoys isn't going anywhere. Maybe they've got a terrific idea, but without the money to bring it to fruition they're just another failed startup.
 
RussSchultz said:
Doomtrooper said:
Why does a company have to possess huge cash reserves to make a superior product ?? Anybody remember a Little company named AMD that released the fastest X86 processor right out from under the shadow of the Cash Cow Intel ??
Money has little to do with it, its the people that make the difference in any company. People are a companies most important asset.
:-?

And if the Athlon hadn't worked, AMD would have gone under.

Money has everything to do with making a superior product. It buys and keeps the good engineers, feeds them with quality tools, and reduces pressure to get it right the first time or die. Management is more willing to be risky, react in a situation when things are getting out of hand, staff it correctly, etc. It also allows people NOT to take short cuts that bit back in the long run. Mind you, its not the only reason, but...

I can almost guarantee that money is the reason BitBoys isn't going anywhere. Maybe they've got a terrific idea, but without the money to bring it to fruition they're just another failed startup.

well, I wouldn't say only money... but more like ratio of money/engineering power and expenses. In optimal situation, you would have company that have almost zero expenses and unlimited engineering power. but because of laws of finances, you usually have lots of engineering power and bigger expenses or minor engineering power with low expenses.

so as always, coin has two sides.

and RussSchultz: and what comes to bitboys, I can only quote the following at the moment:
on the Hitch Hiker's Guide to Galaxy Douglas Adams said:
Don't panic.
;)
 
RussSchultz said:
Doomtrooper said:
Why does a company have to possess huge cash reserves to make a superior product ?? Anybody remember a Little company named AMD that released the fastest X86 processor right out from under the shadow of the Cash Cow Intel ??
Money has little to do with it, its the people that make the difference in any company. People are a companies most important asset.
:-?

And if the Athlon hadn't worked, AMD would have gone under.

Money has everything to do with making a superior product. It buys and keeps the good engineers, feeds them with quality tools, and reduces pressure to get it right the first time or die. Management is more willing to be risky, react in a situation when things are getting out of hand, staff it correctly, etc. It also allows people NOT to take short cuts that bit back in the long run. Mind you, its not the only reason, but...

I can almost guarantee that money is the reason BitBoys isn't going anywhere. Maybe they've got a terrific idea, but without the money to bring it to fruition they're just another failed startup.

I disagree to some degree, here.

As it concerns Matrox, there really isn't any question that they have good engineers. Where I think reality deviates from that simple view of the graphics 3D world, besides the ever-present possibility of an "ingenious" discovery/idea, is that while the chips have gotten more "complex", the goals of design have become somewhat simpler.

Namely, we've backed off of the specific feature hardware design road (add this feature, add this feature, add this feature, make up a feature and try to get people to support it) and moved more towards a more general purpose and easy to target road (make it support these instructions, any way you want). This is reflected by both what DX 9 is (or will be according to M$) compared to even DX 8.1, let alone DX 7, and the goals of OpenGL 2.0.

I think this shift was apparent ahead of time to many graphics card companies, and they have the time to spend in shifting to this more direct goal. I think we are seeing the result of that in the string of announcements that have been made for this year.

Given this, it seems easy for me to believe that Matrox, which hasn't been spending a lot of money on spreading out into other fields that nVidia and ATi have done, has had the time and resources (even with not selling a lot of cards outside of OEM/business, and their specific niche applications that may be fairly lucrative) to concentrate on creating a powerful design in the current 3D graphics environment.

Also, they haven't had to participate in the consumer segment price wars (which, for example, seem to severely affect the NV17 design project profitability, for one thing), nor do they have to contend with legacy costs and snags for this new architecture, since the previous architecture has been out so long it is "done".

I think these factors make Matrox's position more favorable than you seem to think.

This leaves concerns such as driver development that we won't be able to evaluate until the product ships, but they have had experience in overcoming driver challenges already...and the new APIs will make this easier, not harder.

As for BitBoys...well, I can't say I disagree with you at all. They have never really been a graphics card manufacturer, let alone made a profit (well, the BitBoys have probably made a ton of money, but I'm referring to actual product sales). The thing there is it really isn't possible to guess whether someone would be willing to foot their bill...either someone is or isn't, and someone who hasn't seen how viable their design may be (that would fit you and I) can't really evaluate the likelihood of that. The other thing is that the "concerns suchs as driver development", etc, are much more of a concern for BitBoys.

Of course, both nVidia and ATi have had the opportunity to dedicate resources in the same manner towards this goal, and they are being unveiled this year...it just remains to be seen how "smart" they were about their approach compared to Matrox.

MIO

EDIT: I never even answered type's question! :-? For me, it is displacement mapping, once someone actually uses that feature. Upon initial release, I hope it will be high performance with no compromises anywhere in any aspect of the image quality.
 
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