What makes 'YOU' - you?

Quantum teleportation isn't teleportation in the star trek sense. It just allows you to copy the quantum state of a source particle onto a destination particle, and in the process, it disrupts the state of the original.

Quantum state cannot be copied non-destructively.

I know that, but I thought the initial object was destroyed, not because it was disrupted, but because of the creation of the copy itself, all that defined the previous was passed, in essence the object was moved.

What I mean is that the object was turned into new forms of information some known, some not... said info. both known and unknown are sent... and then retransformed back into the previous form of information, through the process.

True the original was in a way 'destroyed', but in another it is just a change in the form of the information itself... and thus it's not really destroyed.

edited.
 
At one time, the transition from a state with a soul to a state without a soul is comprimised of exactly replacing one atom.

I don't quite understand what you mean.

I am guessing replacing the atom till a person become a full adroid ?

In that case (assume possibility), the closer that person to become a full android, the closer that person to death, with higher and higher chance of death occuring every single step of atom replacement.

Then that android would become a copy of that person. But the person soul is elsewhere.
 
V3 said:
In that case (assume possibility), the closer that person to become a full android, the closer that person to death, with higher and higher chance of death occuring every single step of atom replacement.

Then that android would become a copy of that person. But the person soul is elsewhere.

At what point is the person dead? When the last heart cell is replaced? When the last brain cell is replaced? When 10% of the brain cells are left? What's the threshold, and how does the soul decide when death occurs?

Secondly, how do you classify this android that is an exact copy of a person, with all the same memories, personality, feelings, but without a soul? Is it a zombie? How could you tell the difference between it and a "real" person with a soul?
 
darkblu, you miss the point on two counts.

First of all, no one is denying that QM, string theory, Quantum Gravity, Theory of Everything, or whatever is ultimately at the lowest level (if it even exists) is what drives everything. It's all a mathematical model anyway, and the map is not the territory. But humans have developed mathematical models at several levels of reality to deal with aggregate and statistical interactions between very large numbers of particles, or elements. We don't do economics by studying particle physics and attempting to predict people's economic behavior. And we don't do macroeconomics by predicting everything from microeconomics.

When humans design things, we use the level of mathematical model appropriate for the task. When we design buildings, we use newtonian mechanics. QM is still there, but any QM specific effects are lost in the noise. When we design circuits, we are now starting to have to use/be aware of QM (because of the size reductions). When we design airplanes, we base it on fluid dynamics. The question is, at what level does the brain work?

To follow up with my second relevant point: The theory of computation was designed using abstract mathematics, not physics. We constructed several differenct types of "devices", such as Finite State Automata, and Turing machines, all without any reference to the laws of physics. These are mathematical/logic constructs like PI. Several conceptial models machines are in fact impossible in reality.

Up until recently, all of our physical devices that do computation are essentially variations on these abstract models. In Automata theory, we consider the Turing machine to be "universal" meaning that it can compute anything that is computable (e.g. brain is just a machine, in theory, a Turing machine could compute all the inputs and outputs of the neurons and simulate a brain). The Church-Turing thesis conjectures that there is no machine that is more powerful than a Turing machine. And for the last few decades, try as people might, they could not come up with any new construct that can compute problems that a Turing machine couldn't. In fact, they could not even construct a machine that could compute problems asymtotically more efficient than a Turing machine. (I'm leaving out non-physically realizable non-deterministic models)

That was the case, until Peter Shor came up with a way to factor numbers using qubits. The best known algorithms for factoring numbers are exponential. Meaning, on any classical device, the time needed to factor grows exponentially with the size of the number. It is not known if there is a more efficient classical algorithm, but people suspect not (and modern cryptography depends on it)

So Quantum factoring contradicts the widely held notion that classical computation was the best you could ever do by solving the problem in polynomial time.

This means that computers designed to take advantage of macroscopic reality (classical design) can solve a class a problems wholly different than computers designed to utilized microscopic quantum effects.

Now there are two possibilities: Either the Church-Turing thesis is right and there is a fast classical algorithm for factoring, OR, Quantum computers represent a new class of computation model and Church-Turing was wrong.

The way this fits into the brain is this: Does the brain operate according to "classical" models, or does it utilize qubits and other weird quantum techniques, such that it is impossible to simulate a brain on a classical device, but could be simulated on a quantum device. I assert that biology appears to be classical, e.g. DNA, ribosomes, all stochastic classical processes.

This is the difference you are failing to recognize. The fact that classic devices (like your Intel CPU) operate at the lowest levels of reality on Quantum Mechanics, doesn't mean that they are Quantum Computers. They are in fact, variations on finite state automatons and ignore quantum effects that they could benefit from.

The fundamental assumption in classical computation models is that at each time step T, only a finite amount of "work" can be done. Quantum computing shows that a near infinite amount of work can be done at each step (by utilizing the power of the machine in multiple universes, I prefer).

A device designed to ignore quantum effects will never have that power, even though the device itself exists in a universe that is quantum.
 
The basis is this, every human has physical body and spiritual soul.

I asked for a little explaintion and not turning it into a axiom.

thanks anyway.

Of course if you're not Christian you won't belive in these things.

though not relevent to this dicusion the concept of soul is not exclusive to Christianity.

again many thanks.
 
What's the threshold,
No experiment on this has been conducted, so threshold is still unknown.

and how does the soul decide when death occurs?
When the physical body can no longer sustain it. Today, I am sure you know when death can occur, we see it all the time in the media. In the future, medicine might prevent death, but ultimately, death is in God's hand. Even if you could prolong your life till the end of time, at that time everything will be made new again, so you will experience death.

Secondly, how do you classify this android that is an exact copy of a person, with all the same memories, personality, feelings, but without a soul?

By what you mean by android. I am thinking you refer to the copy as android for that reason. There are no basis, that android has a soul, only human.

Is it a zombie?
Its an android. Zombie, give me images from something like Resident Evil.

How could you tell the difference between it and a "real" person with a soul?

You can't. In future (assuming progression of tech) androids can blend in with human and we can't tell the difference. Its not important for us to tell the difference though. These advance android would come to know itself as just android, the same way human know about him/her self, when they have say cybernatic limbs.

Soul is importance for the eternal salvation, as for day to day purpose, its mostly physical body.
 
You can't. In future (assuming progression of tech) androids can blend in with human and we can't tell the difference. Its not important for us to tell the difference though. These advance android would come to know itself as just android, the same way human know about him/her self, when they have say cybernatic limbs.

that is a bad example as (hypothetically) we can concoct a self deception experiment for the said zombie. we still haven't clarified what he extent of the 'soul' is so it best left to the faithful methinks.

this will be my last post on the subject.
 
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