What is a good 42" full HD right now to buy?

[nicolasb]

Full HD on a 42 inch is only nice if you're going to sit within 1.5x or below the screen size.

This is rather an important point. How close to this supposed 42" full HD screen is the viewer proposing to sit?

The optimum viewing distance for such a display is to have your eyes just five and a half feet from the screen. Are you really planning on sitting that close?

At a distance of a bit less than 8 feet from a 42" screen, a person with normal eyesight is incapable of seeing any difference between a 1920x1080 display and a 1366x768 display. So, if you're planning to sit 8 feet or more from a 42" screen, then paying for a full HD device is a waste of money.

At a distance of a little more than 12 feet from a 42" screen, a person with normal eyesight will see no difference between a 1920x1080 display and an 852x480 standard-definition plasma.

Personally I think HD is pointless unless you have a decent sized screen. The woeful lack of decent HD televisions in Britain, combined with budgetary restrictions, mean that I've ended up with a 55" SXRD rear projection model. This is a good deal: it performs very nearly a par with full HD resolution plasmas from Panasonic and Pioneer, while costing barely a quarter of the price (at UK prices). 55" still isn't really big enough for HD; if I could have afforded the 70" version I would have got it. (Optimum viewing distance for a 70" 1080p screen is about 9 feet). But I certainly wouldn't want to go any smaller than what I have.

If you do decide to go bigger, then you should definitely look into rear-projection (which is far more widely available in the US than it is over here). Not just SXRD but also DILA (which is JVC's name for what Sony calls SXRD) and DLP.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Err, 153k is a bit stretchy...

Nobody answered this though, what's the best technology, Plasma or LCD ? Advantages / Disadvantages ?

It will depend a lot on your intended use, but they aren't near as far apart as they used to be. Both have covered up their weaknesses considerably in recent generations.

There are a number of good sets you can get for $2500 (even significantly less), there are some problems to look out for which may or may not be issues to you. If you decide on a model you might want to head over to avsforum.com and look up the model just to get a list of experience.

I personally have a 46" aquos which should be well within your price range. They have an issue with banding but it varies from set to set. Mine is only noticeable in very static greyish scenes when viewed from the left side of the set.

 

[Pete]

It sounds too good to be true, but the Pioneer PDP-5080HD appears to be nearly perfect and goes for as low as ~$2600 (apparently it hit $2550 @ Amazon recently, and it's $2500 at Buy.com right now--I have no experience buying TVs from either).

But I haven't done much research recently. I don't even remember how I stumbled onto that AVS thread, though it was just today--I think via a thread in another forum asking basically the same Q.

The thing to take away is that, though the Pioneer is "only" 768p, that's apparently as much as you can resolve from 10' away (check the attached img), and it seems to cover the more important display considerations of contrast, colors, scaling, etc. As such, it seems like a wiser choice than the new 1080p Panny plasmas, but you should definitely look for more reviews of both companies' sets. (FYI, I do know that the CNET review of the Panny 42" 1080p said it doesn't handle 1080p24 sources [well?] and it seems Pios do, but I don't know how this affects, say, HD-DVD/BD movie playback.)

But I don't know if the reason you want 1080p is b/c you'll want to run a PC desktop at that res, or how feasible that is from 10' away, or if that should affect your decision. I just noticed your budget was $2500 and this apparently kick-ass Pio comes close. The 42" Pios seem nice, too, but this 8th gen panel seems to have improved on them. You could probably look into the 4280, assuming it has the same image as the 5080, but it's 1024x768 and so uses rectangular pixels, which may be a problem with a PC desktop.

4 HDMI inputs just makes these Pioneers sound pretty serious, though, doesn't it? :smile:

Edit: But in terms of price/performance, I don't know how the Pio or a Panny compares to, say, the $1500 46" 768p Sharp or $1000 42" 1080p Vizio at Costco right now. If that Vizio does what you want it to do for that much less than the others, then it's a win-win (-win, if you consider the Costco warranty). Add another -win if you think that you can put the $ you saved toward a new TV in a few years' time.

 

[AlNom]

It sounds too good to be true, but the Pioneer PDP-5080HD appears to be nearly perfect and goes for as low as ~$2600 (apparently it hit $2550 @ Amazon recently, and it's $2500 at Buy.com right now--I have no experience buying TVs from either).

Bloody hell, those photos look awesome.

 

[RobertR1]

Pete,

You bring up a great point that I try to hit home with when people ask for TV opinions. Resolution is only part of the equation but it's something that manufacturers love to market with.

The processing, white levels, contrast ratios, passing of various pull down tests, etc.... are just as important but they're too complicated for consumers. Instead the buzz is all around resolution. It's also the easiest way for CE's to get people to cycle out their existing HD sets. The promise of "FULL HD".....

Fact is, many of us will easily have a new TV by the time broadcast is transmitted at 1080p. Until then you're left with HD DVD/BR, both of which might remain at a niche status and games. Not all games are 1080p so you're quite limited in that selection also.

Ofcourse all of the above is assuming you're sitting with the optimal range to benefit from the higher resolution to begin with.

 

[Malo]

That green ghosting mentioned there on the panasonic looks horrible.

btw, the PDP-5080 you mention is the 50" no? Which retails for around $3500 but on special just over 3k? Isn't the 4280 the one your thinking of for around $2500?

 

[digitalwanderer]

Isn't burn-out an issue 'tween plasma/LCD too? Like plasma will and LCD won't?

Also screen burn? That doesn't happen with LCDs, does it?

That being said, we've had a 42" first gen plasma for a while now and it's never been an issue for us...and the kids play Gamecube on it.

 

[RobertR1]

That green ghosting mentioned there on the panasonic looks horrible.

btw, the PDP-5080 you mention is the 50" no? Which retails for around $3500 but on special just over 3k? Isn't the 4280 the one your thinking of for around $2500?

www.invisiondisplays.com tell em you're on AVS and I believe the deal going in $2640 delivered to your door for the 50inch.

I don't work for them or anything or get any kick backs. Just a great experience with them on my 5070 as have just about all others on AVS. Do a quick search for em for feedback.

Again, I recommend going to a store and checking all the displays out for yourself. Then look for the best deal around.

 

[Malo]

Wow that's pretty amazing pricing. I've always shied away from online stores like that mainly for return and warranty purposes. Much easier having a local store you can take it to if you have problems. Shipping a 50" Plasma isn't exactly as easy as shoving it into a local Fed Ex box

 

[Pete]

btw, the PDP-5080 you mention is the 50" no? Which retails for around $3500 but on special just over 3k? Isn't the 4280 the one your thinking of for around $2500?

Nope, it's ~$2600 shipped at Buy.com, and the only comment at Amazon.com says Amazon offered it for $2550 a few days ago (tho it's $3500 now). So it's available at least some places for a lot less than $3500, though $2600 isn't exactly chump change--especially when odds are the same screen'll be $1k less in a year from now. It'd be sweet if the 4280 offered the same IQ at current 40-42" pricing, <=$1500.

But I'm just as wary of online shopping for such big, pricey items. Still, some deals might make it worth the risk, and you could try using a credit card that helps mitigate hassles.

Robert, yup, that's why I still lean toward plasma, but I'm definitely willing for 120Hz LED-backlit LCDs to win me over.

digi, yeah, it can be an issue, but apparently newer panels are less susceptible to it. You have to take extra care for the first ~1k hours of use: minimal contrast and brightness, probably avoid static images and letter/pillarboxes altogether. Of course, all flat panels will still warn against just that (see the fine print on the Pioneers' brochures).

The other thing is that, "historically" (read: the past, what, 5-10 years? ) plasmas were better suited for darker rooms and LCDs for bright ones because of their characteristics (plasmas, deep and contrasty blacks; LCDs, anti-reflective coatings and bright backlights). Read any recent review, though, and you can see some LCDs now have very respectable contrast, and some current plasmas pack AR coating. There are still niggles for each, but I now focus on scaling (mainly, how does SD/DVD/console X look blown up to HD) and processing (colors, etc). Like Robert said, it's the quality, not the quantity of the pixels.

 

[Ty]

digi, yeah, it can be an issue, but apparently newer panels are less susceptible to it. You have to take extra care for the first ~1k hours of use: minimal contrast and brightness, probably avoid static images and letter/pillarboxes altogether. Of course, all flat panels will still warn against just that (see the fine print on the Pioneers' brochures).

I think it's the first HUNDRED, not thousand hours of use. At least, I only worried about the first hundred.

 

[AlNom]

I think it's the first HUNDRED, not thousand hours of use. At least, I only worried about the first hundred.

lol I'd hope it isn't 1000 hours. That's over 40 days straight! Audio visualizers ftw.

 

[Malo]

There are still niggles for each, but I now focus on scaling (mainly, how does SD/DVD/console X look blown up to HD) and processing (colors, etc). Like Robert said, it's the quality, not the quantity of the pixels.

This is also a big factor for me, since SD content will still be so prevalent for many years. I've been looking at various displays and it seems Plasma scales better for SD content than LCDs do. A 4:3 SD content on a 46" XBR looks horrible

What are your impressions on good scaling? I know you can get good upscaling DVD players, but I'm thinking more cable and console SD content.

 

[RobertR1]

This is also a big factor for me, since SD content will still be so prevalent for many years. I've been looking at various displays and it seems Plasma scales better for SD content than LCDs do. A 4:3 SD content on a 46" XBR looks horrible

What are your impressions on good scaling? I know you can get good upscaling DVD players, but I'm thinking more cable and console SD content.

The Pioneers have generally been considered the top in scaling. The scaler from the 7th (5070) to 8th gen (5080) hasn't differed greatly but that's not a bad thing.

I find SD viewing on my 5070 quite tolerable. Ofcourse, some SD channels are shit compared to others and no scaler will make that look pretty.

Outside of the Pioneers, the Fujitsu and Runco brands are top displays with better scaling for SD but you pay a ridiculous amount of money. The other option would be to have an outboard scaler, let it do the scaling/deinterlacing and then feed it to the set. But now we're getting into video phile territory trying get that last 5% of quality by paying a ton for it.

As for buying online, Invision is an authorized Pioneer dealer so warranty isn't an issue. Always buy from an authorized dealer. And for shipping, they get shipped to your house in the same box they get shipped to store This was one of my concerns also but after reading reports, it's more of a mental scare than anything.

 

[Ty]

The Pioneers have generally been considered the top in scaling. The scaler from the 7th (5070) to 8th gen (5080) hasn't differed greatly but that's not a bad thing.

Some surmise that the buyout sometime back between Pioneer and NEC's PDP line contributed to this as the latter has been recognized to have very good scaling.

SD scaling was a huge factor for myself since I realized that HD content still isn't there for much of our TV viewing unfortunately. I don't see this changing drastically in the near future either, more like dribs and drabs.

 

[Malo]

As for buying online, Invision is an authorized Pioneer dealer so warranty isn't an issue. Always buy from an authorized dealer. And for shipping, they get shipped to your house in the same box they get shipped to store This was one of my concerns also but after reading reports, it's more of a mental scare than anything.

My gripe was more about shipping it back than receiving it

 

[Tahir2]

You normally would not ship a TV back, engineers would come onsite and pickup... I hope anyway!

 

[Mintmaster]

So it's available at least some places for a lot less than $3500, though $2600 isn't exactly chump change--especially when odds are the same screen'll be $1k less in a year from now.

That's a little optimistic, don't you think? $1K for the only flat panel on the planet with those kinds of blacks?

I'm glad we're finally getting high constrast ratios. That AVS link you provided shows someone who understands blacks. CRT's are not kings of black because the ANSI contrast isn't great, and it's really bad on RP CRT's. I don't care about absolute black levels, because I don't watch blank screens! RP CRT's and LCOS have black levels that really vary a lot depending on what else is on the screen.

The guy in that post described my perfect contrast ratio test: A small portion of white (say 5% of the screen) surrounded by black. No cheap iris tricks will help you here, and you really have to control internal reflection. DLP was always very good at such a test (relative to the big-screen competition), and recently they were just shy of "good enough" for me. Flat panels, though, just didn't get dark enough.

This set just came out of nowhere to blow the competition away. I never thought plasmas could get that dark. All we need is 58" 1080p version to get below $2k

-------------------------------

Only one question: What colour is the screen in the presence of ambient light? The one thing I hated about most plasmas it that they're grey, so they don't get as dark when there's light in the room. It's the same reason a 500:1 LCD has fantastic blacks in the office compared to CRT, but looks like crap once the lights go out.

 

[Pete]

Mint, I'm a little bitter after seeing the price of a certain Samsung freefall in a year.

Malo, I don't have enough hands-on experience with upscaling to give anything but general advice. I'd just prefer the best, given the choice, and the reviews suggest the Pio does very well. I'm not even going to go into the set top box side of the equation....

Ty, Alstrong, it's been so long since I set up that Sammy that I figured I'd err on the side of caution. Heh.

Mummy, what'd you end up buying?

 

[pakotlar]

Isn't burn-out an issue 'tween plasma/LCD too? Like plasma will and LCD won't?

Also screen burn? That doesn't happen with LCDs, does it?

That being said, we've had a 42" first gen plasma for a while now and it's never been an issue for us...and the kids play Gamecube on it.

Haven't read the whole thread, but anecdotal evidence abound suggest that the 5080 has nicked the image retention issue in the butt. No high-end plasma has had a problem with burn in for the last 2 years or so (at least), but image persistence has always been somewhat of an issue. Apparently, due to the way Pioneer is treating minimal charge states, image retention is almost impossible to discover. On top of that the Seamless Orbiter works very well (pixel shift, 1/16 of a pixel at a time). I actually never even considered a plamsa due to the "burn-in" issue. The 1080P version of the 5080 is the first Plasma tv I'm going to be buying.

As for burn-out, definetely not an issue. If comparing phosphor half-life with the half-life of LCD backlights, both are about the same. Users have been on the same plasma for nearly a decade without issue.