What if the Xbox 720 was just a "windows box"

[joesiv]

By a "windows box" I mean akin to the up and coming "steam box + big picture".

It's just been occurring to me that with all the speculated specs of the next gen Xbox that this might just work, consider the following:
- large RAM footprint for OS (big enough for sure for a fill windows install)
- Off the shelf (for the most part) components CPU/GPU
- Windows 8 is very large screen friendly (potentially more so with kinect)
- Windows 8 already has a lot of Xbox branding built in
- Microsoft would love to leverage the consumer loved "Xbox" brand to bolster their Windows brand
- They could further unify the Direct X development environment between the two platforms

Consider it something like the "games for windows" program modified to be a games for xbox. The Xbox Console would run the same OS, or slightly tweaked (Windows 8 RT style without desktop perhaps?) version. Games marketplace would run on either no problem, Windows based games would remain the same, an would run on windows based machines, but you could get certified to be compatible with the Xbox (to ensure quality/compatibility). Software development could be very streamlined, as you could develop a next gen PC game, but just have a set configuration that works for next gen xbox.

This play would help strengthen both Xbox and Windows at the same time, and help unify their gaming front.

5+ years down the road "PC games" could still support this hardware profile, and MS could release a next next Xbox and continue the trend. I see the steam box working similar to this, big picture works on any PC and lets you play your steam games, but Valve releases a steam box once in a while that locks down the specs, and gets people gaming in the living room more easily.

What do you think?

 

[patsu]

I am thinking the high specs leak is more for MS's own branded Windows PC setup to compete with iMac. They have come up with a product in every category to try to compete with Apple and Google's horde.

So I'm currently unsure what Xbox next is... if it's not this Windows PC box. And yes, there's likely a Windows RT gaming tablet too.

I also suspect the consoles' lifecycle will no longer suffer from this abrupt generation gap problem. It is possible to see beefed up Playstations and Xboxes, just like Kutaragi tried with PSX.

 

[jonabbey]

Having the next xbox be a Windows 8 machine makes a lot of sense to me. If they're concerned about performance for games, they could use a hypervisor that hosted both a Windows 8 / Metro environment and an XBox gaming environment, with cores and RAM dedicated to the Metro environment to avoid perturbing timing on the XBox side, maybe?

 

[Scott_Arm]

I'm guessing it's a Windows 8 machine, but even thought it's an x86 box, it will be more like Windows 8 RT in functionality. It'll run whatever apps run on the Surface 8 RT, but wouldn't run any of the full-fledged x86 apps or allow you to use the desktop environment. Don't think the Xbox games will run on any Windows 8 PCs. They won't totally align the PC and the console in terms of API. I imagine they'll allow lower-level access to the hardware that is reserved for running games. I could see it running Media Center in the background so you could stream music, movies from it on your local network to phones, tablets and PCs.

All speculation of course, but there's no way they'll open this thing as much as a PC, despite it using x86 CPUs. They'll want it locked down, and the Windows 8 RT functionality is the right fit. You won't be installing any drivers on your xbox, that's for sure.

 

[novcze]

Both machines are rumored as being x86 so why not allow Windows install, they only need to provide drivers for hw.

 

[joesiv]

Both machines are rumored as being x86 so why not allow Windows install, they only need to provide drivers for hw.

I think that the living room experience isn't really conducive to spread sheets and other non-metro style apps/games. Keeping it focused on the Metro style interface help things be legible and controllable (without a mouse/keyboard), but also would help curb crappy software slowing down and messing up your computer as the apps/games would have another layer of certification.

 

[XpiderMX]

1 architecture (base), multiple machines... Xbox 8 will be one of those machines, this is another one.

Just speculating

 

[joesiv]

I was also just thinking, MS/Sony tend to lose hundreds of millions when they launch new hardware, as they take a loss to get the installed base up. What better way of saving those lost dollars then having every windows 8 desktop PC essentially be Xbox 8 compatible?

They still sell the software and get their cash from licensing, and and instantly they have a huge install base.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Think about it the other way. Why buy a console if it's just going to be a PC, I already have 3 of those.

You can't make it a PC and keep all the advantages of a console.

 

[Brad Grenz]

The last thing they need is a bunch of Universities and Businesses buying up all the stock of Windows 8 running 720s because they're being sold at a loss and are better than any other computer they could be outfitting their computer laps and personnel with.

Having institutions buy up PS3s for super-computing may have been a nice PR bump for Sony, but they didn't really want to be in the business of subsidizing HPC for the military.

 

[DoctorFouad]

The last thing they need is a bunch of Universities and Businesses buying up all the stock of Windows 8 running 720s because they're being sold at a loss and are better than any other computer they could be outfitting their computer laps and personnel with.

Having institutions buy up PS3s for super-computing may have been a nice PR bump for Sony, but they didn't really want to be in the business of subsidizing HPC for the military.

yeah good point !
if anything xboxnext would end up as a very closed environment. If xboxnext games work on PCs, why would consumers buy xboxnext in the first place ?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Because a 400 dollar console will very likely have much better gaming performance than a 400 dollar pc.

Anyway I think its a fairly safe bet to say that next gen console games in all likelyhood will run on pc as well with very little effort (obviously not the same disk, but looking at what next gen hardware is likely to be, its going to be very pc'ish)

 

[Arwin]

I find it extremely likely that the next 360 will run Windows RT for all its app needs. There is a good possibility that they've managed to tailor Kinect so that you can interface with it very similarly. It certainly would make a lot of sense to me. They don't have to worry too much about losing on the hardware - I don't think that any of the console makers will make loss leading hardware anymore - that concept is pretty much out of the window if you ask me. But as long as Microsoft can either benefit from the Windows 8 App Store ecosystem and/or the Live subscription model (if that stays, we'll see), then they don't have to worry about the rest too much.

Major factor here is security, but Windows RT allows for plenty of security in virtualised form, and we don't know yet how retail games fit in there. Maybe they just have a launcher? Or maybe they do want it to be a full Windows RT experience through and through - you can do DirectX 'Apps' in Windows 8, afaik.

 

[novcze]

The last thing they need is a bunch of Universities and Businesses buying up all the stock of Windows 8 running 720s because they're being sold at a loss and are better than any other computer they could be outfitting their computer laps and personnel with.

Why not offset loss on hw. with right price of "Windows Xbox edition" and next thing is that we don't know what loss are they going to have on hw.

Linux on PS3 was rather slow, but console that could act like decent Windows PC and can play PC games can be good marketing point.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I do not believe for a second that the next xbox will just be a PC, that the games will run on other PCs, or that other manufacturers will be able to make their own versions. This will be a closed down version of Windows 8 (even if they don't call it Windows 8), close in functionality to what you get with Windows RT on the Surface RT. It will be able to run Metro apps. It will most likely act as a home media server and have DVR functions. Like the 360, there will be some differences in the Direct3D api that allows lower level access to the hardware, at least on the "gaming side" (resources reserved for games rather than OS). They'll keep the advantages of the console, but bring in some of the advantages of their cross-platform ecosystem.

 

[trainplane]

Why not offset loss on hw. with right price of "Windows Xbox edition" and next thing is that we don't know what loss are they going to have on hw.

Linux on PS3 was rather slow, but console that could act like decent Windows PC and can play PC games can be good marketing point.

We used to have all these Xbox can be used as a PC arguments with the original Xbox but it was still largely sold as a game machine.

Also remember, If the specialized hardware MS is supposedly adding is different enough from current PCs and its functionality is exposed in the DirectX layer, it won't be exactly like developing for a PC. And the next Xbox looks like it will have some sort of eDRAM again which PC's don't use.

MS is going to take a loss on the machine but if they were gutsy, they would produce a higher end version in which they make a profit, taking advantage of the graphics enthusiast who are willing to pay more to get more. Games would target the lower end one and add some effects for the higher end one, similar to the PC and iPad model.

 

[orangpelupa]

next xbox will have many thigs that pc dont have.
why not just make Xbox next can play xbox game and pc game?

when playing skyrim on pc, sometime i just want to STOP playing serious and play comfortably and lousy on a couch/sofa with gamepad with big screen. Or when playing NFS, or when playing Dragon Nest MMO.

even though maybe limited to only able to play "Games for Windows Live" games
if they allow steam and drm-less game to be run, it can eat their XBLA profit.

or it maybe just business problem. like on Steam, only Valve game that you can buy on PS3 and get free PC free Mac.

 

[pjbliverpool]

why not just make Xbox next can play xbox game and pc game?

Because all PC games will be on the xbox anyway and the native versions will be coded more efficiently and thus run better. The far more intersting proposition is the opposite IMO. But then that would require xbox 8 games to be built at a higher api level than would be usual for console games. Which is also highly unlikely.

when playing skyrim on pc, sometime i just want to STOP playing serious and play comfortably and lousy on a couch/sofa with gamepad with big screen. Or when playing NFS, or when playing Dragon Nest MMO.

Why can't you do exactly the same thing on the PC? I could be playing Skryim on my 50" HDTV from my couch with a 360 control pad within 20 seconds of finishing this post. No that I would. The 50" TV from the couch only fills around 1/3 of the field of view I get from my 27" monitor from my desk. And I won't even get into the benefits of 3d gaming on a monitor.

 

[joesiv]

The last thing they need is a bunch of Universities and Businesses buying up all the stock of Windows 8 running 720s because they're being sold at a loss and are better than any other computer they could be outfitting their computer laps and personnel with.

Another reason why they'd be wise to go with the RT version (or one that that specifically doesn't include the classic desktop view, and doesn't allow the install of non metro apps). Universities and Business's wouldn't buy a box that couldn't run their software.

But you bring up a good point, they definitely wouldn't want people to do as you say, can you say backfire

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I find it extremely likely that the next 360 will run Windows RT for all its app needs.

Highly unlikely considering it's likely to be using an 8 core AMD Jaguar based CPU, hence x86. See below for more...

This will be a closed down version of Windows 8 (even if they don't call it Windows 8), close in functionality to what you get with Windows RT on the Surface RT. It will be able to run Metro apps.

IF... IF it is indeed based off of Windows 8, this is the far more likely situation. Except unlike Windows 8 and unlike Windows RT, there will be Zero access to the desktop.

It's also likely that Modern UI (what used to be Metro) will see a redesign with a more Xbox-like tile setup. It would certainly benefit MS to allow access to the Modern UI store as well as that would boost the appeal of tablets based on Win8. Buy an app. in the store and run it on your Xbox, PC, Tablet, whatever.

With zero access to the desktop that should prevent deliberate cannibalization of Windows PC sales. They'll also need to be careful that it can't easily be hacked back in.

I'm still not sure I'm willing to buy into it being based on Win8, but I certainly see the possibility there.

Hmm, that makes me wonder about something. There were rumors a few months back of a Windows "refresh" or somesuch in 2013. It would be amusing if everyone got it wrong and that was referring to Xbox running a reskinned version of Windows versus an actual new Desktop/Tablet Windows version. Unlikely, yes, but would be highly amusing.

next xbox will have many thigs that pc dont have.
why not just make Xbox next can play xbox game and pc game?

Microsoft makes most of the money in the Xbox division through royalties on games and accessories. If they make it able to play PC games, then they lose a large chunk of game sales royalties, unless they are sold through the Microsoft store.

Of course, Microsoft's own software sales rules prohibit selling large AAA games through the Microsoft store, so you won't see any AAA PC games being playable on the next Xbox.

What could happen though is that casual titles sold through the Microsoft store could be made available on the Xbox. In that case then Microsoft would likely merge XBLA with the Microsoft store. That would be a nice potential boost for tablet/PC sales as you'd potentially be able to play mid/low budget games purchased on the Xbox on your PC/tablet and vice versa. And Microsoft would still get a cut which means they would have an incentive to offer it on PC as well unlike the current PC software landscape.

There is one potential avenue for AAA games to be shared by Xbox and PC and that would be if they did something (a rebrand perhaps?) of Games for Windows Live to merge it with the Xbox marketplace and perhaps turn that all into the Digital Distribution center for Xbox games. I still see that as highly unlikely however.

Regards,
SB