What can Sony do about Japan?

[TheChefO]

The Core has a worse gaming experience than the Premium

FUD

The gaming experience is identical. The core gamer will miss out on patches and dlc and the occasional slower load. However I don't recall too many gamers jumping ship to xbox for faster load times due to the hdd.

The core will fly off the shelves (anticipated peak of the gen for xb360) at $200 and specifically if MS can pull this price by the time Halo3 and gta4 ship this year before Christmass.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Oh yes, the $150 price point of the DC and the $200 of the GC did wonders against the $300 PS2. Oh wait, they didn't. The claim that there's a huge impulse buying group at the $199 pricepoint is completely absurd.

Actually the most absurd thing posted in this entire thread was you comparing the 360 to GC or DC.

 

[TheChefO]

It is if your starting point is only 1 or 2 million.

So your point is Sony shouldn't drop the price of ps3 due to it's lackluster sales currently?

 

[Corwin_B]

Wasn't this thread supposed to be about how Sony could fare better in Japan ?

Anyway, regarding the reasoning behind the Core Pack, here's what Peter Moore told 1UP in a December 2005 interview :

Let me be clear on the Core System. The Core System is built when we look at a five-to-ten year strategy and we roll out what we need to be in 2007, 8, 9, and 10. We need both features and price to be on our side. And the Core System gives us that ability to use price on our side. Don't think of it for the Japanese market, or even the U.S. market, but think of it for markets that, A), got to go into China--price is an issue. Got to go into Russia. Got to go into India. Got to go into Poland, Hungary, Latvia. Those are markets we're going in. We're going to globalize this industry, and price becomes a big issue. The other thing, when you look at Xbox 1, having that hard drive built in cost us a lot of money. Not having the flexibility for a more casual gamer down the line, to sell them an Xbox for $79 that doesn't have a hard drive. Doesn't have it, but I'm just gonna go buy an MU and I'm as happy as a pig in you-know-what playing.

 

[Deusp]

Actually the most absurd thing posted in this entire thread was you comparing the 360 to GC or DC.

Sales-wise, 360 Core is doing worse that the GC or DC. So it's an insult to the GC and DC to compare them to the 360 Core.

So your point is Sony shouldn't drop the price of ps3 due to it's lackluster sales currently?

Strawman. Core sales are like that after a 18 months of sales. PS3 is at 3 million after just 5 months.

And your forgetting the key point: Core is $300. PS3 is at $600. Just a slight different in price there.

 

[scooby_dooby]

You seem to be claiming that it will do significantly more than that. Not 70 million, but still many millions of units. That is not likely to happen.

Actually, nobody is making any claims about how many units the core will sell, simply that it will increase as the price gets lower, which it will. We're mainly responding to the nonsense you're spewing like MS is 'screwing over' core owners. The core exists for a valid reason.

 

[TheChefO]

Sales-wise, 360 Core is doing worse that the GC or DC. So it's an insult to the GC and DC to compare them to the 360 Core.



Strawman. Core sales are like that after a 18 months of sales. PS3 is at 3 million after just 5 months.

And your forgetting the key point: Core is $300. PS3 is at $600. Just a slight different in price there.

Interesting. Do you have a link to xb core sales because I haven't found this data?

 

[scooby_dooby]

Sales-wise, 360 Core is doing worse that the GC or DC. So it's an insult to the GC and DC to compare them to the 360 Core.

On what planet is this relevant to the current dicussion?

You used GC and DC as examples where price made no difference, that is stupid on so many levels:
a) How do you know it didn't help? Do you have a crystal ball? Perhaps they sold twice as many units as they would've with a higher price. No way of knowing. Stupid point.

b) Everyone knows that both games and price determine the success of a console. Not either one exlcusivley. DC and GC both lacked software, 360 does not, which makes these comparisons useless.

c) comparing entire consoles, to a single SKU is...just....meaningless.

In the end: price makes a difference, Core will reach a lower price faster, and not everyone cares about a HDD. Therefore, Core does have an audience, and anyone arguing otherwise is just plain wrong.

 

[TheChefO]

Everyone knows that both games and price determine the success of a console. Not either one exlcusivley.

I'd like to ammend the formula with the following inclusion: Hype/Myth/FUD/Momentum.

It is tough to gauge, but I do believe it plays a significant role as well. For example: compare ps2 price/software to DC price/software at the launch of ps2. This third factor played a role (along with the more obvious DVD & BC & Brand) in the early sales lead ps2 gained.

 

[Diamond.G]

The opposite is true for Sony. They should have 50% of all PS3 on the shelves as 20GB. Why they announced them and somehow stop shipping them is beyond me. Both companies make strange decisions.

But isn't the 20GB PS3 the equivalent of the Core? No wifi, no card readers, etc?

Sony needs: Games and a 299 PS3.

 

[Rolf N]

Hey, are we having a Core discussion again?
Great! I'm still waiiting for you guys to integrate a few minor things into your repertoire of knowledge about consumer habits. Say, if the Core drops 100$s in price, by how much do you think the other SKU will drop? Same 100$, more, less?

 

[Todd33]

But isn't the 20GB PS3 the equivalent of the Core? No wifi, no card readers, etc?

Sony needs: Games and a 299 PS3.

No, the 20GB PS3 is the equivalent of the 360 premium. The 360 core is a gimped console that has far less value than the price tag implies.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Hey, are we having a Core discussion again?
Great! I'm still waiiting for you guys to integrate a few minor things into your repertoire of knowledge about consumer habits. Say, if the Core drops 100$s in price, by how much do you think the other SKU will drop? Same 100$, more, less?

I would guess we end up with a $70 price differential, and possibly a $29 memory card. But really, that's MS's problem, their pricing is all over he map so I won't try and predict that.

If MS were simply to drop the price of the HDD and Memory Card, core sales would probably go way up. It's all about value and how MS implements the different SKU's is up to them. It doesn't change the fact there are still consumers who do not want to pay extra for a HDD.

And to address your points I missed:

Core edition not in any demand now, despite 65$ cost savings
Tell that to the approx 1million people who have purchased one.

little reason for MS to accelerate sales of Core edition in terms of profit (Premium=+50~60$ pure profit vs Core, memcard=25~30$ profit); motivation can only come from install-base
In terms of profit yes. In terms of increasing the install base, the motivation is there. If MS were only concerned about profit, they would never have released the core in the first place.

price drops are most likely to reduce the absolute dollar price difference of Core vs Premium, making the choice of Core+memcard even less attractive versus the Premium going forward
I agree it will make it less attractive to people who desire a HDD. But will it make it less attractive to everyone? No, since pricedrops lower the absolute price. Someone who is not interested in a $299 core, maye very well be intesested in one at $129, even if the price difference between the SKU's has decreased.

no precedent for magic price points washing away all intelligence even before checkout (cf first point; a small minority of people care enough to "save" those 65$ dollars even; cf non-existance of bare-bones console SKUs without any controllers and A/V cables)
If you do not use online, and do not have an HDTV, then the 'intelligent' decision is to not purchase these useless peripherals.

no precedent for two-SKU consoles anyway, except for the 360 itself (see first bullet)
And?


You still fail to address my main point, and the one I've been repeating ad nasuem. Why do you assume that the ENTIRE existing PS2 userbase, which consisted mainly of people who bought at $199 or less, will want a HDD in their console? I'd love to hear that argument.

 

[Todd33]

It doesn't change the fact there are still consumers who do not want to pay extra for a HDD.

Are they as hard to find as the Big Foot? Seriously, what percentage of 360 owners don't own a HD, 5%?

 

[scooby_dooby]

Are they as hard to find as the Big Foot? Seriously, what percentage of 360 owners don't own a HD, 5%?

IMO the majority of these people will not buy a console at $300.

We're talking about the cheapskate gamers, and there are tons of em. This is the target for the core imo, so judging it now, while the pricepoint still sits at $300 is premature.

And, as Chef pointed out, if you own an HDTV then you essentially are getting the HDD for free. A core+MC+ HD cables is nearly $400 right there. So, it doesn't really point to overwhelming demand for the HDD, as much as a lopsided pricing structure.

Only 60% of 360 users connect to the internet, that tells me much more about the true value of HDD than the premium/core sales ratio does. 4million people are not using their HDD for anything other than game saves.

 

[TheChefO]

Are they as hard to find as the Big Foot? Seriously, what percentage of 360 owners don't own a HD, 5%?

Good question. One which should probably be answered specifically before analyzing how well the core is selling.

/offtopic

ontopic:
Sony could produce a ps3 lite without a HDD and sell it for $50 less to help spur interest. Or just get some compelling games to market before Nintendo completely locks the region up.

 

[Paul]

Sony could produce a ps3 lite without a HDD and sell it for $50 less to help spur interest.

That would be one of the absolute worst things Sony could ever do.

The gaming experience is identical. The core gamer will miss out on patches and dlc and the occasional slower load.

Sorry but it's not identical. If it were only slower load times I would say ok but we're talking patches too so it's just not the same.

 

[TheChefO]

That would be one of the absolute worst things Sony could ever do.

Why?

Sorry but it's not identical. If it were only slower load times I would say ok but we're talking patches too so it's just not the same.

yeah, patches saved us.

/core conversation

 

[djskribbles]

edit: nm

 

[Tap In]

Sorry but it's not identical. If it were only slower load times I would say ok but we're talking patches too so it's just not the same.

patches can be saved to Memory Card and the Core is upgradeable with the HDD. I'm guessing we'll see quite a few on ebay cheap as Premium 20Gigs get upgraded to 120s or Elites.

The point of "measuring" a Core's value by what's in the box is irrelevant IMO.

the idea is to allow those who are price sensitive to get into the system at an entry level price point and then add on as needed from there. As I mentioned earlier, the number of people who live their lives with that strategy (buying the cheapest and upgrading as budget allows over time) is much larger than many here seem to giving credit.