Was the war in Iraq worth the costs?

[Clashman]

Have the historically myopic american leftists forgotten the Bill Clintons Cruise Missle Crusade in the middle east? What was the point of that onslaught? Oh yeah, an attempt at saving Clinton's career.

Did his missle tirade accomplish his goals? I have yet to see evidence...

Have they also forgotten how little Clinton did to help the NKs way back when before Kim was as missle capable as he is today? Clinton was certainly better able at the time to remove Kim do to his lack of preperation for a US invasion.

Explain if the dems had such a good tract record why Osama Ben Ladin was allowed to escape so many times during Clinton's regime?

First off, it's lovely how you equate "leftists" with Clinton. Last I checked, it was Clinton and his entourauge that turned the Democratic Party into "Republican lite".

Secondly, there's a key difference between railing on Clinton's failures vs. Bush's at this point in time. That difference being the Clinton isn't the goddamned president right now!

 

[Clashman]

Very true, I would even wager that putting 100 billion into solving africas problem would help very few there. why? because the govermnents are so corrupt its not even funny. It would be interesting to findout how many of their "presidents" are billionaires, with their illgotten money hidden away in swiss banks.

later,
epic

I would wager that 100 billion dollars would do a hell of a lot more than it's done in Iraq. Hell, just injecting 1/10th of that into South Africa's, (a relatively open and transparent democracy) healthcare and education systems would probably save hundreds of thousands of lives, if not more, (around 12-15% of S. Africa's population is infected with HIV).

If we spent that hundred billion dollars on AIDS medicine, we would have enough money to treat 10 million people, and that is at the rate the drugs cost in the U.S. In Africa, the prices are generally around 1,000 dollars, (200% of most Africans average annual income). At those rates, we could afford AIDS medication for everyone in the entire world infected with AIDS and/or HIV for 3 solid years.

 

[epicstruggle]

Clashman, have you ever been to africa? The whole continent is basically corrupt to the very core. I was born in south africa. So were my parents, I know a bit about what im talking about. There is MASSIVE corruption. It has gotten better, but what do you do when the president of SA, doesnt even believe that hiv causes aids. How about people who believe having sex with babies will cure you of aids. Hardly any black use condoms because its perceived that your not manly if you use it. Look any money you send over there, will just line the pockets of the political leaders, wont really address any problems.

later,
epic

 

[Clashman]

And what better way to perpetuate ignorance than to do nothing. Seriously.

Furthermore, it doesn't have to be Africa where the money is invested. Even in the U.S. that money would pay for AIDS treatment for everyone infected for more than a decade.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

And what better way to perpetuate ignorance than to do nothing. Seriously.

And whenever we "so something", we get accused of "meddling where we shouldn't be". Unless of course, when it comes to giving out the cash, right?

And heaven forbid if we do give out cash, that we actually place some restrictions on it's use...

Furthermore, it doesn't have to be Africa where the money is invested. Even in the U.S. that money would pay for AIDS treatment for everyone infected for more than a decade.

Because the U.S. (public and private) is not doing enough already, right?

 

[Clashman]

Yeah, I would say more could be done, even in the U.S.

AIDS: U.S. Infections On The Rise Again
http://www.applesforhealth.com/HealthyFeatures/aidinfrisa5.html

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Of course... more could always be done.

We could do more to cure cancer, do more to fight terrorisim, do more to explore space, do more to save the 5 assed monkey too. But there are two real concepts:

1) Limited Resources
2) Diminishing returns of application of said resources.

 

[John Reynolds]

And what better way to perpetuate ignorance than to do nothing. Seriously.

Furthermore, it doesn't have to be Africa where the money is invested. Even in the U.S. that money would pay for AIDS treatment for everyone infected for more than a decade.

Does anyone seriously think Bush's administration would increase funding for anything AIDS related? 'Tis God's divine wrath upon the gays.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Does anyone seriously think Bush's administration would increase funding for anything AIDS related? 'Tis God's divine wrath upon the gays.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030129-1.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/hivaids/

EDIT: Oh...and please...don't let Natoma hear you imply that AIDS is a "gay disease."

 

[London Geezer]

Does anyone seriously think Bush's administration would increase funding for anything AIDS related? 'Tis God's divine wrath upon the gays.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030129-1.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/hivaids/

EDIT: Oh...and please...don't let Natoma hear you imply that AIDS is a "gay disease."

I think he was being sarcastic, and by the way, is Natoma the only one that would go crazy over such a statement? :?

 

[John Reynolds]

I'd like to know if that money did indeed get spent.

Is AIDS a gay disease? According to right wing fundamentalists, it most definitely is. When was the first time Ronald Reagan even said the word publically while in office? Wasn't it 1987 or so?

 

[Sxotty]

The question was: Was it worth the cost?

And i'm sorry, with a fraction of what the USA and the UK spent on the war on Iraq, hunger in Africa would not EXIST. And the HIV/AIDS issue there would greatly benefit too. A fraction of the cost.

How could anyone ignore that and say it was worth it is just beyond me.

You are incorrect. I mean that is all there is to it... sorry

You don't need to say that it was a good thing, or the right thing, but don't tell tales like this it just makes you look silly.

For example, when the world community sends food to racaged countries warlords take the food and use it to make themselves more powerful, this is what happened in Somalia and the reason the the world wanted the UN/US there to make it so regualr people actually got food, well you saw what heppened there. Another example bioengineered corn was sent to africa, I forget which country exactly but the government decided they did not want the starving population to have it in case the bioengineered part was bad for them, so they locked it up in warehouses until people stole it and used it for economic gain.

Treating diseases such as aids actually is much more expensive than killing people, killing people is cheap. War may seem expensive but that is why they have war's on poverty and other crap to explain why it costs an arm and a leg.

 

[Sxotty]

Media: LOOK AT THIS!!! LOOK PEOPLE LOOK!!! PAY ATTENTION TO US SENSATIONALIZING NONSENSE SO WE HAVE SOMETHINGTO TALK ABOUT!

Tell me about it....

I saw two headlines today relating to the current "gay marriage" stuff:

1) Bush "troubled" by Gay Vows
2) Laura Bush Says Gay Marriage "shocking"

Quite a different picture, wouldn't you say? But the real context just isn't "sensational" enough...so let's just invent a new context...

Selective quoting is what the media feeds on to make sensationalist headlines that as far as I am concerned are lies... I have seen this so many times it makes me sick.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I'd like to know if that money did indeed get spent.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20031201.html

But...nah...Bush (and the U.S. in general) is doing NOTHING for AIDS. In fact, I hear Bush has secret labs in the catacombs of DC where they're holding Gays against their will (little known part of Patriot Act, I'm sure some would tell you), and performing HIV experiments to try and create the Uber Aids virus.

It's all part of "Neo Con" conspiracy, you know.

 

[RussSchultz]

I heard the same "Bush says he's troubled by gay marriage" BS on NPR this morning.

Can't anybody report honestly and correctly anymore?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I heard the same "Bush says he's troubled by gay marriage" BS on NPR this morning.

Can't anybody report honestly and correctly anymore?

Apparently, "facts" are just too boring.

 

[John Reynolds]

It's all part of "Neo Con" conspiracy, you know.

If you have a person in your office who's gay, ask them what they think of the right wing's handling of AIDS has been for the past twenty years and then come back and do some more eye rolling.

 

[RussSchultz]

While I'm not against AIDS research, cancer and heart disease are bigger killers by far, and their contributing factors aren't as well understood. Alzheimers is a 10 fold more terrifying disease than AIDS is, and we barely begin to know what causes it and what might help treat it. Considering all three of those are in my family, and AIDS is easily preventable*, I think it's getting more research than it deserves.

*Don't engage in unsafe sex, don't use dirty needles and it isn't even an insignificant risk.

 

[digitalwanderer]

It's all part of "Neo Con" conspiracy, you know.

If you have a person in your office who's gay, ask them what they think of the right wing's handling of AIDS has been for the past twenty years and then come back and do some more eye rolling.

Don't forget to ask 'em what the big deal about the difference between marriage and civil unions are while you're at it and save yourself a trip.

 

[London Geezer]

It's all part of "Neo Con" conspiracy, you know.

If you have a person in your office who's gay, ask them what they think of the right wing's handling of AIDS has been for the past twenty years and then come back and do some more eye rolling.

Some of us would just go "Huh huh... Errr... Did you watch Britney last nite? Didn't she look FAB!!".... I know a couple or more that would do something like that....
Sorry couldn't resist...